Rice Roolz..... Re: Plant toxins..... Re: Ping BD.... Re: Fruit Juicing Machines
in [SolidWorks]
|
Prev: Photoworks Options Window in SolidWorks 2007 Wont Appear
Next: Rice Roolz..... Re: Plant toxins..... Re: Ping BD.... Re:Fruit Juicing Machines
From: Existential Angst on 19 Jun 2010 16:00 "Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat(a)aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message news:97gm165gf2f7tc7l0sguha68n5n4c1g482(a)4ax.com... > On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:31:38 -0400, "Existential Angst" > <UNfitcat(a)UNoptonline.net> wrote: > >>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat(a)aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message >>news:dlfj169b48t5a6m9uap7552g8pp8amqahs(a)4ax.com... >>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:09:31 -0400, "Existential Angst" >>> <UNfitcat(a)UNoptonline.net> wrote: >>> >>>>(rice is a super-food, >>>>unbeknownst to most); >>> >>> Most varieties are lacking in specific required amino acids IIRC. >> >>Au contrare. >>Rice has a protein quality on par with chicken and milk, just not as >>dense. >>Most grains have a high PQ. > > http://www.weightlossforall.com/protein-rice.htm > "The protein in rice is considered incomplete because it has lower levels > of > some of the essential amino acids." > > One of the goals of new rice varieties is to "correct" this (& a few > other > things). > Most rice is low in lysine. Well, first, I'd rethink your link, as, with their very first entry, they start with 150 gms of rice, yet manage to get 15 gms of protein, and 170 grams of carb out of it...... was jb hired for data entry by this site?? Nor did they get the conversion from grams to oz correct..... goodgawd.... Next, unless I made some egregious mistakes, my calcs disagree. You can readily calculate PQ in a spreadsheet, from the constitutuent aa profiles, by referencing the the aa profile of the egg. OK, here is the VERY FIRST cite I retrieved, searching protein quality of rice : http://www.goya.com/english/nutrition/basics_rice.html ------------------------------- ........ The protein in rice is well balanced because all eight amino acids are present and in proper proportion. Therefore, rice is a unique cereal grain. The protein content of rice, while limited (ranging from 2.0 to 2.5 mg. per 1/2 cup of cooked rice), is considered one of the highest quality proteins to that provided by other cereal grains. Biological value is a measure of protein quality, assessed by determining the extent to which a given protein supports nitrogen retention. The most perfect protein by this standard is egg protein (biological value 100); this has been designated the reference protein by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations. ********* Rice protein has a biological value of 86. ********* Fish fillet protein has a biological value of 75-90. Corn protein has a biological value of 40. Generally, a biological value of 70 or above indicates acceptable quality. ------------------------------- Yours truly calculated a PQ of 88 for rice, but who's quibbling..... Notice how the PQ of rice exceeds that of most fish, according to this cite!!! And chicken, according to me. :) Thus, my original point remains, rice is a SPECTACULAR food, additionally valuable because it has no gluten, like many grains. This can be a VERY important consideration, even for people who are not celiacs, or with measurable gluten sensitivities. It is thought that there is a lot of un-measurable gluten sensitivity. Thus a rice-based diet visavis a wheat-based diet is "safer". Corn is considered a grain, but has relatively low PQ, 40 as cited above. Beans can have an even LOWER PQ, but are denser in amounts. Lentils, for example, have a PQ of 27 (worser than g-d corn!!!), but can quickly be elevated to near-80% with about 80 mg of methionine, and then to 90% with a very small amount of lysine. This, however, is not traditionally done, so lentils, as they stand, have lots of protein, just real crappy quality. Rice has much less protein, but excellent quality. Ergo, the time-honored notion of rice and beans being "complementary proteins" has been time-honoredly incorreck, as you can't rationally "combine" proteins when one source *already* has a high PQ. Protein combining only applies to sources of crappy PQ quality to form a high PQ, and, in reality, rarely occurs. -- EA > > >>You can just about get all your protein from a heavy rice-based diet, >>altho >>an egg or two wouldn't hurt. >> >>Potatoes have a miserable PQ, a score of about 11 compared to rice's high >>80's. > -- > Cliff
From: Cliff on 20 Jun 2010 08:30 On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 16:00:36 -0400, "Existential Angst" <UNfitcat(a)UNoptonline.net> wrote: >"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat(a)aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message >news:97gm165gf2f7tc7l0sguha68n5n4c1g482(a)4ax.com... >> On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:31:38 -0400, "Existential Angst" >> <UNfitcat(a)UNoptonline.net> wrote: >> >>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat(a)aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message >>>news:dlfj169b48t5a6m9uap7552g8pp8amqahs(a)4ax.com... >>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:09:31 -0400, "Existential Angst" >>>> <UNfitcat(a)UNoptonline.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>>(rice is a super-food, >>>>>unbeknownst to most); >>>> >>>> Most varieties are lacking in specific required amino acids IIRC. >>> >>>Au contrare. >>>Rice has a protein quality on par with chicken and milk, just not as >>>dense. >>>Most grains have a high PQ. >> >> http://www.weightlossforall.com/protein-rice.htm >> "The protein in rice is considered incomplete because it has lower levels >> of >> some of the essential amino acids." >> >> One of the goals of new rice varieties is to "correct" this (& a few >> other >> things). >> Most rice is low in lysine. > >Well, first, I'd rethink your link, as, with their very first entry, they >start with 150 gms of rice, yet manage to get 15 gms of protein, and 170 >grams of carb out of it...... was jb hired for data entry by this site?? >Nor did they get the conversion from grams to oz correct..... goodgawd.... > >Next, unless I made some egregious mistakes, my calcs disagree. >You can readily calculate PQ in a spreadsheet, from the constitutuent aa >profiles, by referencing the the aa profile of the egg. > >OK, here is the VERY FIRST cite I retrieved, searching protein quality of >rice : http://www.goya.com/english/nutrition/basics_rice.html > >------------------------------- > ........ The protein in rice is well balanced because all eight amino >acids are present and in proper proportion. Therefore, rice is a unique >cereal grain. The protein content of rice, while limited (ranging from 2.0 >to 2.5 mg. per 1/2 cup of cooked rice), is considered one of the highest >quality proteins to that provided by other cereal grains. > >Biological value is a measure of protein quality, assessed by determining >the extent to which a given protein supports nitrogen retention. The most >perfect protein by this standard is egg protein (biological value 100); this >has been designated the reference protein by the Food and Agriculture >Organization of the United Nations. > >********* > >Rice protein has a biological value of 86. > >********* > >Fish fillet protein has a biological value of 75-90. Corn protein has a >biological value of 40. Generally, a biological value of 70 or above >indicates acceptable quality. > >------------------------------- > > > >Yours truly calculated a PQ of 88 for rice, but who's quibbling..... > >Notice how the PQ of rice exceeds that of most fish, according to this >cite!!! >And chicken, according to me. :) > > >Thus, my original point remains, rice is a SPECTACULAR food, additionally >valuable because it has no gluten, like many grains. >This can be a VERY important consideration, even for people who are not >celiacs, or with measurable gluten sensitivities. It is thought that there >is a lot of un-measurable gluten sensitivity. > >Thus a rice-based diet visavis a wheat-based diet is "safer". > >Corn is considered a grain, but has relatively low PQ, 40 as cited above. > >Beans can have an even LOWER PQ, but are denser in amounts. >Lentils, for example, have a PQ of 27 (worser than g-d corn!!!), but can >quickly be elevated to near-80% with about 80 mg of methionine, and then to >90% with a very small amount of lysine. > >This, however, is not traditionally done, so lentils, as they stand, have >lots of protein, just real crappy quality. > >Rice has much less protein, but excellent quality. > >Ergo, the time-honored notion of rice and beans being "complementary >proteins" has been time-honoredly incorreck, as you can't rationally >"combine" proteins when one source *already* has a high PQ. Protein >combining only applies to sources of crappy PQ quality to form a high PQ, >and, in reality, rarely occurs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice#Golden_rice "Rice is a good source of protein and a staple food in many parts of the world, but it is not a complete protein: it does not contain all of the essential amino acids in sufficient amounts for good health, and should be combined with other sources of protein, such as nuts, seeds, beans, fish, or meat" Rice & beans. -- Cliff
From: Existential Angst on 20 Jun 2010 16:10 "Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat(a)aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message news:to1s16p4ash16jv2bgu2tq1tjn91eaocek(a)4ax.com... > On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 16:00:36 -0400, "Existential Angst" > <UNfitcat(a)UNoptonline.net> wrote: > >>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat(a)aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message >>news:97gm165gf2f7tc7l0sguha68n5n4c1g482(a)4ax.com... >>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:31:38 -0400, "Existential Angst" >>> <UNfitcat(a)UNoptonline.net> wrote: >>> >>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat(a)aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message >>>>news:dlfj169b48t5a6m9uap7552g8pp8amqahs(a)4ax.com... >>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:09:31 -0400, "Existential Angst" >>>>> <UNfitcat(a)UNoptonline.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>(rice is a super-food, >>>>>>unbeknownst to most); >>>>> >>>>> Most varieties are lacking in specific required amino acids IIRC. >>>> >>>>Au contrare. >>>>Rice has a protein quality on par with chicken and milk, just not as >>>>dense. >>>>Most grains have a high PQ. >>> >>> http://www.weightlossforall.com/protein-rice.htm >>> "The protein in rice is considered incomplete because it has lower >>> levels >>> of >>> some of the essential amino acids." >>> >>> One of the goals of new rice varieties is to "correct" this (& a few >>> other >>> things). >>> Most rice is low in lysine. >> >>Well, first, I'd rethink your link, as, with their very first entry, they >>start with 150 gms of rice, yet manage to get 15 gms of protein, and 170 >>grams of carb out of it...... was jb hired for data entry by this site?? >>Nor did they get the conversion from grams to oz correct..... >>goodgawd.... >> >>Next, unless I made some egregious mistakes, my calcs disagree. >>You can readily calculate PQ in a spreadsheet, from the constitutuent aa >>profiles, by referencing the the aa profile of the egg. >> >>OK, here is the VERY FIRST cite I retrieved, searching protein quality >>of >>rice : http://www.goya.com/english/nutrition/basics_rice.html >> >>------------------------------- >> ........ The protein in rice is well balanced because all eight amino >>acids are present and in proper proportion. Therefore, rice is a unique >>cereal grain. The protein content of rice, while limited (ranging from 2.0 >>to 2.5 mg. per 1/2 cup of cooked rice), is considered one of the highest >>quality proteins to that provided by other cereal grains. >> >>Biological value is a measure of protein quality, assessed by determining >>the extent to which a given protein supports nitrogen retention. The most >>perfect protein by this standard is egg protein (biological value 100); >>this >>has been designated the reference protein by the Food and Agriculture >>Organization of the United Nations. >> >>********* >> >>Rice protein has a biological value of 86. >> >>********* >> >>Fish fillet protein has a biological value of 75-90. Corn protein has a >>biological value of 40. Generally, a biological value of 70 or above >>indicates acceptable quality. >> >>------------------------------- >> >> >> >>Yours truly calculated a PQ of 88 for rice, but who's quibbling..... >> >>Notice how the PQ of rice exceeds that of most fish, according to this >>cite!!! >>And chicken, according to me. :) >> >> >>Thus, my original point remains, rice is a SPECTACULAR food, additionally >>valuable because it has no gluten, like many grains. >>This can be a VERY important consideration, even for people who are not >>celiacs, or with measurable gluten sensitivities. It is thought that there >>is a lot of un-measurable gluten sensitivity. >> >>Thus a rice-based diet visavis a wheat-based diet is "safer". >> >>Corn is considered a grain, but has relatively low PQ, 40 as cited above. >> >>Beans can have an even LOWER PQ, but are denser in amounts. >>Lentils, for example, have a PQ of 27 (worser than g-d corn!!!), but can >>quickly be elevated to near-80% with about 80 mg of methionine, and then >>to >>90% with a very small amount of lysine. >> >>This, however, is not traditionally done, so lentils, as they stand, have >>lots of protein, just real crappy quality. >> >>Rice has much less protein, but excellent quality. >> >>Ergo, the time-honored notion of rice and beans being "complementary >>proteins" has been time-honoredly incorreck, as you can't rationally >>"combine" proteins when one source *already* has a high PQ. Protein >>combining only applies to sources of crappy PQ quality to form a high PQ, >>and, in reality, rarely occurs. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice#Golden_rice > "Rice is a good source of protein and a staple food in many parts of the > world, but it is not a complete protein: it does not contain all of the > essential amino acids in sufficient amounts for good health, and should be > combined with other sources of protein, such as nuts, seeds, beans, fish, > or > meat" > > Rice & beans. Well, I guess people will have to choose who they want to believe. Of course, you could always calculate the protein quality yourself. A few things, tho: The wiki article made about 1/2 dozen errors in that one short paragraph: 1. Rice is NOT a very good source of protein, AMOUNT-wise -- which actually has inneresting implications ito how much protein we really need. 2. Rice is NOT an incomplete protein. It *could* have distinct limiting amino acids, but a limiting amino acid does not make an incomplete protein -- only a totally absent essential amino acid does that. 3. As I stated earlier, protein combining makes no sense with high-quality proteins, such as nuts, fish or meat. Only if these sources have an EXCESS of lysine or methione would it make sense add a low quality protein requiring these eaa's, and iirc these excesses do not show up in the profiles 4. Rice is not complementary with beans, as its PQ is much higher than beans. 5. To say that rice is a "good source of protein" and then claim it is incomplete is semi-oxymoronic. 6. Rice could NOT be a food "staple" if it were that deficient in protein, esp. in areas where other sources of protein are scarce. My cite actually GAVE you a number for the protein quality of rice -- 86. AND it gave you a range for fish fillet, for reference. Are you saying they are lying? Here's another cite: http://www.karlloren.com/diet/p49.htm Halfway down is a table of BVs: Rice is, again, 86. Strange, tho, Corn is up at 72, and casein, fish and beef are at 75 -- that doesn't sound quite right.... Heh, mebbe another reason to lighten up on beef, eh?? Not the academic sites/cites I"d like, but still, you get an idea of just how good rice is. I don't think the USDA calculates chemical scores, but they do tabulate amino acid profiles on most foods, so you can do the chemical scoring yourself. A note on these values: Biologic Value is just one of numerous experimental determinations of protein quality. Whereas *my* number was from a calculation using the method of "chemical scoring" using the egg's eaa profile. However, in most cases, the chemical score is quite highly correlated with the various experimental methods (BV, NPU, PER, a few others), except where the food exhibits peculiar properties ito digestion and absorption. In this case the two numbers were indeed close: 86 based on Biological Value (also referenced to the egg standard), and 88, based on my calculation of the chemical score. You choose who you want to believe, but I"d at least give sources who bother to come up with effing numbers a little weight over hand-waving cites who screw up the numbers they do have (your first cite), or who make numerous erroneous edicts, and syntactically incorrect edicts at that, in one short paragraph -- your second cite. Wiki is OK for overviews, but not much else, unless someone knowledgeable and talented was at the writing helm -- which as you know is pot shot pot luck. And even a lot of their overviews are hanstrung, poorly conveying gists of the material -- unless you perhaps have prior knowledge. AND, you will find MOST "sources" claiming rice is a poor quality protein, or incomplete, or whatever. That's because they are basically feeding off each other in some reasonable-sounding "voice of reason", when they just haven't done the math or the experiments, or, apparently, the proper reading. OR, they think rice is a vegetable, instead of a GRAIN, and start blathering based on generalities, and wrong generalities at that. Even Frances Moore Lappe (Diet for a Small Planet) missed the mark with protein combining, and later conceded this point. Not that her overall premise was incorrect or invaluable -- it was very valuable -- but she made a number of errors in details. You will also hear how "inferior" white rice is to brown rice. Yeah, it has less fiber, but mostly it's quite close to brown rice, with mebbe one or two exceptions of really shitty rice. And even white rice has more fiber than a lot of other foods. Let me guess, Cliff: You don't LIKE rice, right?? Someone said to me recently that rice reminded them of maggots. goodgawd..... -- EA > -- > Cliff
From: Cliff on 21 Jun 2010 03:54 On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:10:28 -0400, "Existential Angst" <UNfitcat(a)UNoptonline.net> wrote: >2. Rice is NOT an incomplete protein. It *could* have distinct limiting >amino acids, but a limiting amino acid does not make an incomplete >protein -- only a totally absent essential amino acid does that. We need certain amino acids in our diets. Proteins are made up of amino acids. If certain amino acids are not in the proteins we eat ..... IIRC we cannot make them ourselves. Varies by species IIRC. -- Cliff
From: Cliff on 21 Jun 2010 03:55
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:10:28 -0400, "Existential Angst" <UNfitcat(a)UNoptonline.net> wrote: > Rice is not complementary with beans, as its PQ is much higher than >beans. Rice + beans = the amino acids needed. Not so with either alone it looks like, for the most part. -- Cliff |