Runtime and Extra ocxs
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From: Mayayana on 10 Jun 2010 22:52 | The files mentioned are >>not<< part of VB but of Windows. | Yes, obviously. You just said they weren't system files. You said "None of the DLLs, OCXes, etc. which are added regularly to a setup by e.g. the P&D wizard is a system file". But the PDW does, normally, ship those files: ADVPACK.DLL, ASYCFILT.DLL, COMCAT.DLL, OLEAUT32.DLL, OLEPRO32.DLL. That's what my link was all about. All I'm trying to clarify here is to make sure that Leo understands he does not need to ship what are known as the "runtime files" (those listed above), and that they won't install, anyway, except on Win98 or earlier. He could *maybe* ship THE runtime file -- msvbvm60.dll -- but the SP5 version of that file predates XP. So what would be the point? To get the SP6 version on those rare XP systems that haven't had any service packs? (MSVBVM60.DLL is in the XP service packs.) Even if MSVBVM60.dll is not protected, and even if there are non-updated XP systems out there, updating msvbvm60.dll is very unlikely to make any difference one way or the other. In fact, the SP6 readme doesn't mention *any* specific bugfixes in that version. But you're going to tell people they should ship that file anyway because someone, somewhere could have removed their copy? It seems to me you're only causing more confusion than help with that advice.
From: Leo on 10 Jun 2010 23:03 Mayayana explained : >> The files mentioned are >>not<< part of VB but of Windows. >> > > Yes, obviously. You just said they weren't > system files. You said "None of the DLLs, OCXes, > etc. which are added regularly to a setup by e.g. > the P&D wizard is a system file". But the PDW > does, normally, ship those files: ADVPACK.DLL, > ASYCFILT.DLL, COMCAT.DLL, OLEAUT32.DLL, > OLEPRO32.DLL. That's what my link was all about. > > All I'm trying to clarify here is to make sure > that Leo understands he does not need > to ship what are known as the "runtime files" (those > listed above), and that they won't install, anyway, > except on Win98 or earlier. > > He could *maybe* ship THE runtime file -- > msvbvm60.dll -- but the SP5 version of that file > predates XP. So what would be the point? To get > the SP6 version on those rare XP systems that > haven't had any service packs? (MSVBVM60.DLL is > in the XP service packs.) Even if MSVBVM60.dll > is not protected, and even if there are non-updated > XP systems out there, updating msvbvm60.dll is very > unlikely to make any difference one way or the other. > In fact, the SP6 readme doesn't mention *any* > specific bugfixes in that version. > > But you're going to tell people they should ship > that file anyway because someone, somewhere > could have removed their copy? It seems to me > you're only causing more confusion than help > with that advice. So no need to ship the runtime. What about the MS ocxs that are redistributable? -- ClassicVB Users Regroup! comp.lang.basic.visual.misc Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
From: Mayayana on 10 Jun 2010 23:33 | So no need to ship the runtime. What about the MS ocxs that are | redistributable? | That's different. You should probably ship any of those that you're using. If it were me I'd check into each one, though, just to make sure you've got the right files, the right versions, and that there are no special issues with particular ones. For instance, if you ship richtx32.ocx on Win9x (RichTextBox) then riched32.dll goes with it. But on WinNT riched32.dll does not go with it.
From: Thorsten Albers on 11 Jun 2010 07:20 Mayayana <mayayana(a)invalid.nospam> schrieb im Beitrag <hus8af$odp$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>... > Yes, obviously. You just said they weren't > system files. You said "None of the DLLs, OCXes, > etc. which are added regularly to a setup by e.g. > the P&D wizard is a system file". But the PDW > does, normally, ship those files: ADVPACK.DLL, > ASYCFILT.DLL, COMCAT.DLL, OLEAUT32.DLL, > OLEPRO32.DLL. That's what my link was all about. Of course this was said by me within the context of this thread named "Runtime and extra ocxs" (cmp. also "at least the VB runtime isn't handled as a system file"). > All I'm trying to clarify here is to make sure > that Leo understands he does not need > to ship what are known as the "runtime files" (those > listed above), and that they won't install, anyway, > except on Win98 or earlier. The files listed above are >>not<< known as the "runtime files". The runtime file of VB is msvbvm60.dll. The files listed above are Windows system files for which the P&D wizard adds possibly updated versions to the setup. > He could *maybe* ship THE runtime file -- > msvbvm60.dll -- but the SP5 version of that file > predates XP. So what would be the point? Because msvbvm60.dll >>may be/have been removed<< from the system without causing the system not working anymore. It isn't a file necessary for Windows to run. And if removed it will not be restored from the dllcache (at least on Win XP) since it isn't in the dllcache. In fact there are people who like to keep their system clean an remove all files not necessary for the system to run. > But you're going to tell people they should ship > that file anyway because someone, somewhere > could have removed their copy? It seems to me > you're only causing more confusion than help > with that advice. A good VB application should have a setup, and a good VB application setup should contain any file which the application needs to run, and which may be redistributed. I am not able to see how this could be confusing for anyone. On the contrary I think it may be confusing for others if they are told that on some version of Windows they may exclude some files and on others they may not. And to tell them that all these files are system files and therefore are protected by the system file protection is not correct. BTW: It is almost for sure that in the near future Windows will not be shipped any longer with files which are (very) out-dated, and which are not needed for any part of Windows to work. Therefore it can be very usefull to add to the setup >all< files needed for the app to work. -- Thorsten Albers albers (a) uni-freiburg.de
From: Mayayana on 11 Jun 2010 09:05 | | The files listed above are >>not<< known as the "runtime files". The | runtime file of VB is msvbvm60.dll. The files listed above are Windows | system files for which the P&D wizard adds possibly updated versions to the | setup. | I don't see any point in continuing to debate this in circles. If you want to ship msvbvm60.dll to deal with people who may have deleted it, that's up to you. But on this one point you are simply wrong and it's potentially confusing. The PDW does include those files unless one removes them. Those files are generally known as the runtime files because they're included in the VB6 runtime install package. (Do you really feel *that* distinction needs to be debated?!) But the PDW does NOT add "possibly updated versions". Since VB SP4 those files have been added to the Redist folder. Old versions were deliberately put there so that a PDW setup will never try to install any of those files on a post-98 system. If updated versions are shipped they cannot be installed on systems with SFP and the PDW will go into a loop, rebooting to install them over and over again while SFP puts back the pre-existing version, over and over again. So unless one is supporting Win98, shipping the "runtime files" is at best a waste and at worst a risk of a problematic install. ...It's all in the page that I linked. Please at least read that first before refuting the above statement. * SFP = System File Protection, later renamed to Windows File Protection
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