Saving to Sent folder [Postfix]

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From: Charles Marcus on 4 Mar 2010 08:33

On 2010-03-03 4:49 PM, Ansgar Wiechers wrote:
> Read again. The "sent items" folder is in the user's mailbox, which
> Thunderbird most certainly does *not* access via SMTP, but via IMAP.

My point was, if you want this to be done *without* TB having to save it
to the Sent folder itself, it would essentially *have* to be done during
the smtp transaction - there's simply no other way to do it.

> Saving a copy of sent mail is the MUA's job, not the MTA's.

It is in most cases, yes (someone already pointed out that Exchange has
the ability to save the Sent message without the client having to upload
it again) - but again, my point is, why does it *have* to be that way.

'That's the way its done now', or 'that's the way it's always been done'
is a stupid reason (by itself) to dismiss the idea of a potentially new
feature.

--

Best regards,

Charles

From: "J. Roeleveld" on 4 Mar 2010 09:08

On Thursday 04 March 2010 14:55:59 you wrote:
> 12:24:20 Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> > J. Roeleveld put forth on 3/4/2010 2:12 AM:
> > > On Thursday 04 March 2010 08:57:30 Jonathan Tripathy wrote:
>
> <snipped non-relevant part>
>
> > > With that, I thought there is an option in postfix to bcc a single
> > > address on all emails?
> > > You could then put a filter like the following on all emails coming
> > > into that address:
> > >
> > > if <from> in <list of local emails> then
> > > {
> > > store in correct Sent Items
> > > } else {
> > > discard email as we don't want to duplicate incoming email
> > > }
> >
> > Would sender_bcc_maps work if he uses Dovecot LDA/sieve? He could create
> > a sieve filter based on MAIL FROM: being his own address, and have sieve
> > move all such mails into his Sent Items folder. Might be worth a shot?
>
> This is how I would do it on my server, if I'd be so inclined :)
> eg:
> sender_bcc_maps = autosendfolderfill(a)mydomain.com
>
> Then for the "autosendfolderfill" user set the following for the
> sieve-script:
>
> if header :contains "From" "me(a)mydomain.com"
> {
> fileinto me+Sent;
> stop;
> }
>
> You then need to make sure the "autosendfolderfill" user has permissions to
> drop messages in the respective "Sent" folders.
>
> I have not tested the above, but I think I'd be able to get this to work
> with Postfix and Cyrus.
> I am not familiar with Dovecot, but the above might be doable with Dovecot
> as well.
>
> --
> Joost
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>
> Does that mean I'd need a autosendfolderfill for each user on the system?
>

First, please keep responses on the List to make it possible for other people
to find it with Google and also to allow other people to keep contributing.

As for your question:
No, you'll only need to create one of these users. The username doesn't
matter, as long as this user can have a filter set up and is allowed to post
messages into the Sent-folders of all the users.

You will need to create a filter-entry for each of your users, eg. duplicate
the following inside the filter for every user that is allowed to sent emails:
--
> if header :contains "From" "me(a)mydomain.com"
> {
> fileinto me+Sent;
> stop;
> }
--

HTH,

Joost

From: "Jonathan Tripathy" on 4 Mar 2010 09:27

From: Ansgar Wiechers on 4 Mar 2010 09:41

On 2010-03-04 Charles Marcus wrote:
> On 2010-03-03 4:49 PM, Ansgar Wiechers wrote:
>> Read again. The "sent items" folder is in the user's mailbox, which
>> Thunderbird most certainly does *not* access via SMTP, but via IMAP.
>
> My point was, if you want this to be done *without* TB having to save
> it to the Sent folder itself, it would essentially *have* to be done
> during the smtp transaction - there's simply no other way to do it.

Which, if you carefully re-read the mail you initially replied to, is
what I already wrote in the part that you chose to omit in your
response.

>> Saving a copy of sent mail is the MUA's job, not the MTA's.
>
> It is in most cases, yes (someone already pointed out that Exchange
> has the ability to save the Sent message without the client having to
> upload it again)

Exchange is not an SMTP server, but a groupware server with an SMTP
connector, and thus entirely different from SMTP servers like Postfix.

> but again, my point is, why does it *have* to be that way.

Because SMTP servers do delivery up to a user's mailbox, and no further.
SMTP servers do not have any knowledge about how a user may have
organized his mailbox internally (i.e. concepts like "sent mail" folders
and such), nor should they have to, as this isn't part of SMTP.

If you want a groupware solution: there are quite a few around. Postfix
(by itself), however, isn't one of them.

> 'That's the way its done now', or 'that's the way it's always been
> done' is a stupid reason (by itself) to dismiss the idea of a
> potentially new feature.

See above.

Regards
Ansgar Wiechers
--
"Abstractions save us time working, but they don't save us time learning."
--Joel Spolsky

From: Charles Marcus on 4 Mar 2010 10:10

On 2010-03-04 9:08 AM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> I am not familiar with Dovecot, but the above might be doable with
>>> Dovecot as well.

>> Does that mean I'd need a autosendfolderfill for each user on the
>> system?

> No, you'll only need to create one of these users. The username
> doesn't matter, as long as this user can have a filter set up and is
> allowed to post messages into the Sent-folders of all the users.
>
> You will need to create a filter-entry for each of your users, eg.
> duplicate the following inside the filter for every user that is
> allowed to sent emails:> --
>> if header :contains "From" "me(a)mydomain.com"
>> {
>> fileinto me+Sent;
>> stop;
>> }

Interesting... yes, this is doable with dovecot if you are using its
LDA, and you can do it via the global sieve script (which can be made
mandatory for all users) - no need to make a script for each user.

So... two more questions...

1. Can '-o sender_bcc_maps=hash:/etc/postfix/sender_bcc' be added to the
submission service in master.cf? If so, I think this could work.

2. What happens if the smtp send transaction fails? Would the message
still be bcc'd (hopefully not?)?

--

Best regards,

Charles

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