The absolute frame.
in [Relativity]
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From: Hayek on 10 Aug 2010 14:34 There is an absolute frame, but the gamma factor hides this. There are three possibilities : 1.a does not move, only b moves wrt the absolute frame. 2.a moves and b moves faster first then returns slower wrt the absolute frame to a 3.a moves and b moves slower first then returns faster wrt absolute frame. first case : b's clock will move slower than a's on the outward voyage and slower than a's on the way back. second case : b's clock will move muuuuch slower that a's on the outward voyage and faster than a's on the way back, in total, because the gamma factor has a quadradic term we will end up just as slow as in the first case and third case. Third case : b's clock will move faster that a's on the outward voyage and muuuuch slower than a's on the way back, and again, in total, because the gamma factor has a quadradic term we will end up just as slow as in the first case and in the second case. So no matter what case you choose : because there is acceleration on the return point, the speed wrt to absolute frame changes, and because of the quadratic gamma factor, two way voyages always make the returning twin age more, if not on the outward track, then it is on the inbound track, or on both tracks. The instantaneous clock rate is decided by the speed wrt to the absolute frame, the average mass distribution of the universe. SR-ians can make funny claims, and so can I, because there is no way of verifying this, without Faster Than Light transmission, which SR-ians exclude from their theory, mainly because this would destroy SR, and secondly because they do not know what proper time exactly is. They think it is "speed of passage through time", while it actually is slowing the motion of objects and clocks by increasing inertia. A clock is an inertiameter, or an inertial field strength meter. If inertia becomes stronger, the escapement of your clock is harder to move back and forth, hence the clock slows. Because this applies to any object moving in this higher inertia, we think this is "time" we are measuring, while in fact it does not much more than your freezer, alowing the motion of the molecules. Uwe Hayek. -- We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion : the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history. -- Ayn Rand I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- Thomas Jefferson. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill.
From: BURT on 10 Aug 2010 14:41 On Aug 10, 11:34 am, Hayek <haye...(a)nospam.xs4all.nl> wrote: > There is an absolute frame, but the gamma factor hides this. > > There are three possibilities : > > 1.a does not move, only b moves wrt the absolute frame. > > 2.a moves and b moves faster first then returns slower > wrt the absolute frame to a > > 3.a moves and b moves slower first then returns faster > wrt absolute frame. > > first case : b's clock will move slower than a's on the > outward voyage and slower than a's on the way back. > > second case : b's clock will move muuuuch slower that > a's on the outward voyage and faster than a's on the way > back, in total, because the gamma factor has a quadradic > term we will end up just as slow as in the first case > and third case. > > Third case : b's clock will move faster that a's on the > outward voyage and muuuuch slower than a's on the way > back, and again, in total, because the gamma factor has > a quadradic term we will end up just as slow as in the > first case and in the second case. > > So no matter what case you choose : because there is > acceleration on the return point, the speed wrt to > absolute frame changes, and because of the quadratic > gamma factor, two way voyages always make the returning > twin age more, if not on the outward track, then it is > on the inbound track, or on both tracks. The > instantaneous clock rate is decided by the speed wrt to > the absolute frame, the average mass distribution of the > universe. > > SR-ians can make funny claims, and so can I, because > there is no way of verifying this, without Faster Than > Light transmission, which SR-ians exclude from their > theory, mainly because this would destroy SR, and > secondly because they do not know what proper time > exactly is. > They think it is "speed of passage through time", while > it actually is slowing the motion of objects and clocks > by increasing inertia. A clock is an inertiameter, or an > inertial field strength meter. If inertia becomes > stronger, the escapement of your clock is harder to move > back and forth, hence the clock slows. Because this > applies to any object moving in this higher inertia, we > think this is "time" we are measuring, while in fact it > does not much more than your freezer, alowing the motion > of the molecules. > > Uwe Hayek. > > -- > We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate > inversion : the stage where the government is free to do > anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by > permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of > human history. -- Ayn Rand > > I predict future happiness for Americans if they can > prevent the government from wasting the labors of the > people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- > Thomas Jefferson. > > Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of > ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue > is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill. The unmarked space frame contains the motion of matter and light. Mitch Raemsch
From: kenseto on 10 Aug 2010 18:10 On Aug 10, 2:34 pm, Hayek <haye...(a)nospam.xs4all.nl> wrote: > There is an absolute frame, but the gamma factor hides this. > > There are three possibilities : > > 1.a does not move, only b moves wrt the absolute frame. > > 2.a moves and b moves faster first then returns slower > wrt the absolute frame to a > > 3.a moves and b moves slower first then returns faster > wrt absolute frame. No every object in the universe are in a state of absolute motion (individual motion in the aether). The higher is the state of absolute motion of the clock the slower is its clock rate. When two clocks A and B are in relative motion that means that A and B are in a different state of absolute motion and thus their clocks are running at different rates. Since A or B does not know who is in a lower state of absolute motion then each must include all the following possibilities when predicting the rate of each other's clock rate: From A's point of view: 1. A is runing faster than B then B is running slower than A. Therefore A predicts that B runs slow by a factor of 1/gamma. 2. A is running slower than B then B is running faster than A. Therefore A predicts that B runs fast by a factor of gamma. From B's point of view: 3. B is runing faster than A then A is running slower than B. Therefore B predicts that A runs slow by a factor of 1/gamma. 4. B is running slower than A then A is running faster than B. Therefore B predicts that A runs fast by a factor of gamma. http://www.modelmechanics.org/2008irt.dtg.pdf Ken Seto > > first case : b's clock will move slower than a's on the > outward voyage and slower than a's on the way back. > > second case : b's clock will move muuuuch slower that > a's on the outward voyage and faster than a's on the way > back, in total, because the gamma factor has a quadradic > term we will end up just as slow as in the first case > and third case. > > Third case : b's clock will move faster that a's on the > outward voyage and muuuuch slower than a's on the way > back, and again, in total, because the gamma factor has > a quadradic term we will end up just as slow as in the > first case and in the second case. > > So no matter what case you choose : because there is > acceleration on the return point, the speed wrt to > absolute frame changes, and because of the quadratic > gamma factor, two way voyages always make the returning > twin age more, if not on the outward track, then it is > on the inbound track, or on both tracks. The > instantaneous clock rate is decided by the speed wrt to > the absolute frame, the average mass distribution of the > universe. > > SR-ians can make funny claims, and so can I, because > there is no way of verifying this, without Faster Than > Light transmission, which SR-ians exclude from their > theory, mainly because this would destroy SR, and > secondly because they do not know what proper time > exactly is. > They think it is "speed of passage through time", while > it actually is slowing the motion of objects and clocks > by increasing inertia. A clock is an inertiameter, or an > inertial field strength meter. If inertia becomes > stronger, the escapement of your clock is harder to move > back and forth, hence the clock slows. Because this > applies to any object moving in this higher inertia, we > think this is "time" we are measuring, while in fact it > does not much more than your freezer, alowing the motion > of the molecules. > > Uwe Hayek. > > -- > We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate > inversion : the stage where the government is free to do > anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by > permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of > human history. -- Ayn Rand > > I predict future happiness for Americans if they can > prevent the government from wasting the labors of the > people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- > Thomas Jefferson. > > Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of > ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue > is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill.
From: BURT on 10 Aug 2010 18:30 On Aug 10, 11:41 am, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Aug 10, 11:34 am, Hayek <haye...(a)nospam.xs4all.nl> wrote: > > > > > > > There is an absolute frame, but the gamma factor hides this. > > > There are three possibilities : > > > 1.a does not move, only b moves wrt the absolute frame. > > > 2.a moves and b moves faster first then returns slower > > wrt the absolute frame to a > > > 3.a moves and b moves slower first then returns faster > > wrt absolute frame. > > > first case : b's clock will move slower than a's on the > > outward voyage and slower than a's on the way back. > > > second case : b's clock will move muuuuch slower that > > a's on the outward voyage and faster than a's on the way > > back, in total, because the gamma factor has a quadradic > > term we will end up just as slow as in the first case > > and third case. > > > Third case : b's clock will move faster that a's on the > > outward voyage and muuuuch slower than a's on the way > > back, and again, in total, because the gamma factor has > > a quadradic term we will end up just as slow as in the > > first case and in the second case. > > > So no matter what case you choose : because there is > > acceleration on the return point, the speed wrt to > > absolute frame changes, and because of the quadratic > > gamma factor, two way voyages always make the returning > > twin age more, if not on the outward track, then it is > > on the inbound track, or on both tracks. The > > instantaneous clock rate is decided by the speed wrt to > > the absolute frame, the average mass distribution of the > > universe. > > > SR-ians can make funny claims, and so can I, because > > there is no way of verifying this, without Faster Than > > Light transmission, which SR-ians exclude from their > > theory, mainly because this would destroy SR, and > > secondly because they do not know what proper time > > exactly is. > > They think it is "speed of passage through time", while > > it actually is slowing the motion of objects and clocks > > by increasing inertia. A clock is an inertiameter, or an > > inertial field strength meter. If inertia becomes > > stronger, the escapement of your clock is harder to move > > back and forth, hence the clock slows. Because this > > applies to any object moving in this higher inertia, we > > think this is "time" we are measuring, while in fact it > > does not much more than your freezer, alowing the motion > > of the molecules. > > > Uwe Hayek. > > > -- > > We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate > > inversion : the stage where the government is free to do > > anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by > > permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of > > human history. -- Ayn Rand > > > I predict future happiness for Americans if they can > > prevent the government from wasting the labors of the > > people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- > > Thomas Jefferson. > > > Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of > > ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue > > is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill. > > The unmarked space frame contains the motion of matter and light. > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The time frame is also unmarked but gravity slowing it is visible by the moving energy parts of a clock in it slowing down. Also accelerating in time decelerates time. Mitch Raemsch
From: Inertial on 10 Aug 2010 19:30
"Hayek" wrote in message news:4c619ba8$0$22940$e4fe514c(a)news.xs4all.nl... ? ?There is an absolute frame, Your evidence for this assertion is ??? None > but the gamma factor hides this. So how do you know its there? You don't [snip rest of nonsense with no basis in reality] |