USB ports don't work
in [Asus]
|
Prev: p5q-e + ai suite
Next: Looking for a new video card
From: JClark on 22 Nov 2009 12:48 Hello, (I posted this also on the ASUS site, but was hoping to get some help sooner than that forum usually provides it.) New install of the M4A78-E, Windows XP Pro SP3. Problem: The on board USB ports don't work. None of them. USB ports connected by cable to the board, such as case ports, external ports etc work fine. I've uninstalled all of the items under Universal Serial Bus Controllers in Device manager, one at a time. Checked the BIOS to see that everything with USB in it is enabled. Very peculiar that only the ports coming directly off the motherboard (without connectors) are not working. This is very frustrating, with added frustration by my recognizing (after purchase, of course) that this board doesn't have a PS2 mouse port! Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.. Jack
From: Paul on 22 Nov 2009 16:47 JClark wrote: > Hello, > > (I posted this also on the ASUS site, but was hoping to get some help > sooner than that forum usually provides it.) > > New install of the M4A78-E, Windows XP Pro SP3. > Problem: The on board USB ports don't work. None of them. USB ports > connected by cable to the board, such as case ports, external ports > etc work fine. > I've uninstalled all of the items under Universal Serial Bus > Controllers in Device manager, one at a time. Checked the BIOS to see > that everything with USB in it is enabled. > Very peculiar that only the ports coming directly off the motherboard > (without connectors) are not working. > This is very frustrating, with added frustration by my recognizing > (after purchase, of course) that this board doesn't have a PS2 mouse > port! > Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.. > > Jack There really isn't much that can go wrong. Each USB port needs power, and there is a green Polyfuse for each pair of ports. You can see three fuses near the I/O plate area. And three more, near the 2x5 headers for USB. You could do a quick visual check and see if any of that is missing. I downloaded an ATI/AMD programming manual, and the claim there, is there are two EHCI controllers and four OHCI controllers for regular USB ports. That means USB2 operation is split into two groups. USB 1.1 is split a little weird, in that I think three USB ports are tied to each USB 1.1 controller. In any case, you could check Device Manager, and see if the two EHCI and four OHCI items showed up. There is a fifth OHCI which is apparently for hardware debug, and it may appear in Device Manager as well. I don't know if they'd make an extra effort to disable it, because there might not be any way to physically access the associated ports on a finished motherboard. What you see in Device Manager is not a "port". You cannot count ports by looking at Device Manager. What shows in Device Manager are the logic blocks driving the ports. If the Southbridge is designed to drive three ports from one OHCI, you see one OHCI entry in Device Manager. Based on your failure symptoms, it could be everything on one of the EHCIs that isn't working. But again, it is unlikely for something to fail that way. If an EHCI block wasn't working, the OHCI still might, and a plugged in device would end up controlled by OHCI. Which is why I'd be more focused on verifying the ports are getting power, than anything else. OHCI (USB1.1) ---X\ One logic block or +-X----- Physical port the other one, is in EHCI (USB2) ---X control of the port The only chip in my recollection, with a serious issue with USB, was Intel ICH5. The internal bond wires used to burn, the ones that feed the USB I/O pads. This would cause all USB ports to be "dead". But all the logic blocks would still appear to be working in Device Manager. It was down at the I/O level, that the I/O pads didn't have any power, so the I/O wasn't able to communicate with any connected USB items. There hasn't been that style of failure in chip design, since that happened. So I doubt this is a chip design issue, or even a chip test issue. I'm sure the chip was fully tested before it left the AMD factory. If you can't get it working, return the motherboard. Paul
From: JClark on 23 Nov 2009 06:53 On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:47:44 -0500, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote: >JClark wrote: >> Hello, >> >> (I posted this also on the ASUS site, but was hoping to get some help >> sooner than that forum usually provides it.) >> >> New install of the M4A78-E, Windows XP Pro SP3. >> Problem: The on board USB ports don't work. None of them. USB ports >> connected by cable to the board, such as case ports, external ports >> etc work fine. >> I've uninstalled all of the items under Universal Serial Bus >> Controllers in Device manager, one at a time. Checked the BIOS to see >> that everything with USB in it is enabled. >> Very peculiar that only the ports coming directly off the motherboard >> (without connectors) are not working. >> This is very frustrating, with added frustration by my recognizing >> (after purchase, of course) that this board doesn't have a PS2 mouse >> port! >> Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.. >> >> Jack > >There really isn't much that can go wrong. Each USB port needs power, >and there is a green Polyfuse for each pair of ports. You can see >three fuses near the I/O plate area. And three more, near the 2x5 >headers for USB. You could do a quick visual check and see if any of >that is missing. > >I downloaded an ATI/AMD programming manual, and the claim there, >is there are two EHCI controllers and four OHCI controllers for regular >USB ports. That means USB2 operation is split into two groups. >USB 1.1 is split a little weird, in that I think three USB ports >are tied to each USB 1.1 controller. > >In any case, you could check Device Manager, and see if the >two EHCI and four OHCI items showed up. There is a fifth OHCI >which is apparently for hardware debug, and it may appear in >Device Manager as well. I don't know if they'd make an >extra effort to disable it, because there might not be >any way to physically access the associated ports on a >finished motherboard. > >What you see in Device Manager is not a "port". You cannot count >ports by looking at Device Manager. What shows in Device Manager >are the logic blocks driving the ports. If the Southbridge is >designed to drive three ports from one OHCI, you see one OHCI >entry in Device Manager. > >Based on your failure symptoms, it could be everything on one >of the EHCIs that isn't working. But again, it is unlikely >for something to fail that way. If an EHCI block wasn't working, >the OHCI still might, and a plugged in device would end up >controlled by OHCI. Which is why I'd be more focused on verifying >the ports are getting power, than anything else. > > OHCI (USB1.1) ---X\ One logic block or > +-X----- Physical port the other one, is in > EHCI (USB2) ---X control of the port > >The only chip in my recollection, with a serious issue with >USB, was Intel ICH5. The internal bond wires used to burn, >the ones that feed the USB I/O pads. This would cause all USB ports >to be "dead". But all the logic blocks would still appear to >be working in Device Manager. It was down at the I/O level, that >the I/O pads didn't have any power, so the I/O wasn't able to >communicate with any connected USB items. There hasn't been >that style of failure in chip design, since that happened. >So I doubt this is a chip design issue, or even a chip test issue. >I'm sure the chip was fully tested before it left the AMD factory. > >If you can't get it working, return the motherboard. > > Paul Paul, Thank you so much for a very complete and lucid explanation of what for me is a complex situation. I will peruse your note tonight and work on some of your suggestions. The reply in the ASUS group suggested that it might be the IO plate, since the problem seemed to be exclusive to the ports coming out of that plate, not the case ports cabled directly into the MB. Well, that's what it seemed like initially, but with more experience, I am learning that it's really very intermittent and applicable to all of the ports, suggesting that it isn't a simple mechanical issue. Since last night it's been running fine on one of the IO plate ports, but again, it's not consistent. Many thanks again. I'm dreading returning the board for obvious reasons. But I'm a bit irritated that they didn't put a PS2 mouse port on it, and I didn't check carefully enough to notice it didn't have one when I bought it. Live and learn... Jack
From: JClark on 23 Nov 2009 06:57 On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:53:52 -0500, JClark <jclark(a)nomail.invalid> wrote: >On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:47:44 -0500, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote: > >>JClark wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> (I posted this also on the ASUS site, but was hoping to get some help >>> sooner than that forum usually provides it.) >>> >>> New install of the M4A78-E, Windows XP Pro SP3. >>> Problem: The on board USB ports don't work. None of them. USB ports >>> connected by cable to the board, such as case ports, external ports >>> etc work fine. >>> I've uninstalled all of the items under Universal Serial Bus >>> Controllers in Device manager, one at a time. Checked the BIOS to see >>> that everything with USB in it is enabled. >>> Very peculiar that only the ports coming directly off the motherboard >>> (without connectors) are not working. >>> This is very frustrating, with added frustration by my recognizing >>> (after purchase, of course) that this board doesn't have a PS2 mouse >>> port! >>> Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.. >>> >>> Jack >> >>There really isn't much that can go wrong. Each USB port needs power, >>and there is a green Polyfuse for each pair of ports. You can see >>three fuses near the I/O plate area. And three more, near the 2x5 >>headers for USB. You could do a quick visual check and see if any of >>that is missing. >> >>I downloaded an ATI/AMD programming manual, and the claim there, >>is there are two EHCI controllers and four OHCI controllers for regular >>USB ports. That means USB2 operation is split into two groups. >>USB 1.1 is split a little weird, in that I think three USB ports >>are tied to each USB 1.1 controller. >> >>In any case, you could check Device Manager, and see if the >>two EHCI and four OHCI items showed up. There is a fifth OHCI >>which is apparently for hardware debug, and it may appear in >>Device Manager as well. I don't know if they'd make an >>extra effort to disable it, because there might not be >>any way to physically access the associated ports on a >>finished motherboard. >> >>What you see in Device Manager is not a "port". You cannot count >>ports by looking at Device Manager. What shows in Device Manager >>are the logic blocks driving the ports. If the Southbridge is >>designed to drive three ports from one OHCI, you see one OHCI >>entry in Device Manager. >> >>Based on your failure symptoms, it could be everything on one >>of the EHCIs that isn't working. But again, it is unlikely >>for something to fail that way. If an EHCI block wasn't working, >>the OHCI still might, and a plugged in device would end up >>controlled by OHCI. Which is why I'd be more focused on verifying >>the ports are getting power, than anything else. >> >> OHCI (USB1.1) ---X\ One logic block or >> +-X----- Physical port the other one, is in >> EHCI (USB2) ---X control of the port >> >>The only chip in my recollection, with a serious issue with >>USB, was Intel ICH5. The internal bond wires used to burn, >>the ones that feed the USB I/O pads. This would cause all USB ports >>to be "dead". But all the logic blocks would still appear to >>be working in Device Manager. It was down at the I/O level, that >>the I/O pads didn't have any power, so the I/O wasn't able to >>communicate with any connected USB items. There hasn't been >>that style of failure in chip design, since that happened. >>So I doubt this is a chip design issue, or even a chip test issue. >>I'm sure the chip was fully tested before it left the AMD factory. >> >>If you can't get it working, return the motherboard. >> >> Paul >Paul, >Thank you so much for a very complete and lucid explanation of what >for me is a complex situation. I will peruse your note tonight and >work on some of your suggestions. >The reply in the ASUS group suggested that it might be the IO plate, >since the problem seemed to be exclusive to the ports coming out of >that plate, not the case ports cabled directly into the MB. Well, >that's what it seemed like initially, but with more experience, I am >learning that it's really very intermittent and applicable to all of >the ports, suggesting that it isn't a simple mechanical issue. Since >last night it's been running fine on one of the IO plate ports, but >again, it's not consistent. > >Many thanks again. I'm dreading returning the board for obvious >reasons. But I'm a bit irritated that they didn't put a PS2 mouse port >on it, and I didn't check carefully enough to notice it didn't have >one when I bought it. Live and learn... > >Jack PS: My chip is AMD phenom X4. Jack
From: Paul on 23 Nov 2009 12:25
JClark wrote: > On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:53:52 -0500, JClark <jclark(a)nomail.invalid> > wrote: > >> On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:47:44 -0500, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote: >> >>> JClark wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> (I posted this also on the ASUS site, but was hoping to get some help >>>> sooner than that forum usually provides it.) >>>> >>>> New install of the M4A78-E, Windows XP Pro SP3. >>>> Problem: The on board USB ports don't work. None of them. USB ports >>>> connected by cable to the board, such as case ports, external ports >>>> etc work fine. >>>> I've uninstalled all of the items under Universal Serial Bus >>>> Controllers in Device manager, one at a time. Checked the BIOS to see >>>> that everything with USB in it is enabled. >>>> Very peculiar that only the ports coming directly off the motherboard >>>> (without connectors) are not working. >>>> This is very frustrating, with added frustration by my recognizing >>>> (after purchase, of course) that this board doesn't have a PS2 mouse >>>> port! >>>> Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.. >>>> >>>> Jack >>> There really isn't much that can go wrong. Each USB port needs power, >>> and there is a green Polyfuse for each pair of ports. You can see >>> three fuses near the I/O plate area. And three more, near the 2x5 >>> headers for USB. You could do a quick visual check and see if any of >>> that is missing. >>> >>> I downloaded an ATI/AMD programming manual, and the claim there, >>> is there are two EHCI controllers and four OHCI controllers for regular >>> USB ports. That means USB2 operation is split into two groups. >>> USB 1.1 is split a little weird, in that I think three USB ports >>> are tied to each USB 1.1 controller. >>> >>> In any case, you could check Device Manager, and see if the >>> two EHCI and four OHCI items showed up. There is a fifth OHCI >>> which is apparently for hardware debug, and it may appear in >>> Device Manager as well. I don't know if they'd make an >>> extra effort to disable it, because there might not be >>> any way to physically access the associated ports on a >>> finished motherboard. >>> >>> What you see in Device Manager is not a "port". You cannot count >>> ports by looking at Device Manager. What shows in Device Manager >>> are the logic blocks driving the ports. If the Southbridge is >>> designed to drive three ports from one OHCI, you see one OHCI >>> entry in Device Manager. >>> >>> Based on your failure symptoms, it could be everything on one >>> of the EHCIs that isn't working. But again, it is unlikely >>> for something to fail that way. If an EHCI block wasn't working, >>> the OHCI still might, and a plugged in device would end up >>> controlled by OHCI. Which is why I'd be more focused on verifying >>> the ports are getting power, than anything else. >>> >>> OHCI (USB1.1) ---X\ One logic block or >>> +-X----- Physical port the other one, is in >>> EHCI (USB2) ---X control of the port >>> >>> The only chip in my recollection, with a serious issue with >>> USB, was Intel ICH5. The internal bond wires used to burn, >>> the ones that feed the USB I/O pads. This would cause all USB ports >>> to be "dead". But all the logic blocks would still appear to >>> be working in Device Manager. It was down at the I/O level, that >>> the I/O pads didn't have any power, so the I/O wasn't able to >>> communicate with any connected USB items. There hasn't been >>> that style of failure in chip design, since that happened. >>> So I doubt this is a chip design issue, or even a chip test issue. >>> I'm sure the chip was fully tested before it left the AMD factory. >>> >>> If you can't get it working, return the motherboard. >>> >>> Paul >> Paul, >> Thank you so much for a very complete and lucid explanation of what >> for me is a complex situation. I will peruse your note tonight and >> work on some of your suggestions. >> The reply in the ASUS group suggested that it might be the IO plate, >> since the problem seemed to be exclusive to the ports coming out of >> that plate, not the case ports cabled directly into the MB. Well, >> that's what it seemed like initially, but with more experience, I am >> learning that it's really very intermittent and applicable to all of >> the ports, suggesting that it isn't a simple mechanical issue. Since >> last night it's been running fine on one of the IO plate ports, but >> again, it's not consistent. >> >> Many thanks again. I'm dreading returning the board for obvious >> reasons. But I'm a bit irritated that they didn't put a PS2 mouse port >> on it, and I didn't check carefully enough to notice it didn't have >> one when I bought it. Live and learn... >> >> Jack > PS: > > My chip is AMD phenom X4. > > Jack The chip that controls USB is the SB750 Southbridge. It would be the same chip that operates the main SATA ports. The removal of PS/2 is part of legacy port removal. I've heard of at least one motherboard being legacy free, so that would mean no PS/2 port at all, no PCI slots, no parallel port, basically USB and PCI Express for interfaces. So there are "very modern" boards, for the people who seem to feel that is the right direction to go in. I've never had a problem with PS/2 here, and I favor reliability over fancy titles. The chip that drives PS/2 is the SuperI/O. Eventually, a point could be reached, where the SuperI/O could be removed from the board entirely. But right now, it still has hardware monitoring of voltages, temperatures, and fan speed. And I haven't heard of that being on the chopping block. Sometimes, when a port is chopped for being "legacy", the actual electrical interface is still there, and it simply isn't hooked up to the I/O area. An example of this kind of silliness, is what happened with floppy. At one point, a SuperI/O floppy interface could control two floppy drives, A: and B:. Then, the legacy nonsense was interpreted by the manufacturers as, "hey, let's remove the control signals for one of the floppy drives". The chip itself may have still had the circuitry for two floppy drives (for people who transfer files from floppy to floppy), but if you hooked up the floppy cable, only one would work. Again, you can find today, boards where floppy is missing entirely, so I guess that is progress. Personally, I wouldn't remove the floppy port, until all OSes stopped relying on it for drivers during installation. Removing it complicates things for people. ******* PS/2 ports are available in a number of configurations. 1) The "old way", a keyboard and mouse port, in a single stack. 2) A single connector, with +5V,GND, clk/data for mouse, clk/data for keyboard. The Mini-DIN has six pins, so there is room to put all the signals on the one connector. Boards like this, come with a "Y" cable, so that the user can gain access to both functions. In that way, a single connector supports both PS/2 mouse and keyboard simultaneously. Without the adapter, only one of the two options works directly, if you don't use the Y cable. 3) I've seen a board with a half green/half purple colored PS/2 connector. Apparently, the port then can function as either a PS/2 mouse or as a PS/2 keyboard, but not both at the same time. Maybe they do this, by wiring the clk/data pairs in parallel. 4) And your board, with PS/2 keyboard only. They leave keyboard, so you have a guaranteed way of getting into the BIOS. The mouse isn't needed for the BIOS, so they feel USB is good enough for that. You can purchase a USB to PS/2 adapter. It costs $5 to $10, and for that money, you're getting a processor and firmware, within the connector on one end. A single chip holds all of that. The early ones had some firmware issues, and tended to hiccup after about ten minutes of usage. Presumably, the firmware has been tweaked after their bad start. (The reviews aren't wonderful) http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16812101117 (They make an I/O plate version as well, USB to PS/2. Uses internal USB connector. Comes with cable suitable for a USB 2x5 header interface.) http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/15-158-116-S01?$S640$ There is even a version that plugs to a PCI slot. It consists of a PCI to USB chip, plus the USB to PS/2 dual adapter chip. In this picture, you can see the size of the single chip that does the protocol conversion from USB to PS/2, near the PS/2 connectors. http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/15-150-153-S01?$S640$ So you can spend money to fix this little shortcoming, as long as you're not a KVM user. The adapter doesn't seem to work that well with KVMs. ******* As part of your USB problem solving, you could plug in a PCI to USB card, and try testing how well USB works with that. If the USB on those ports works reliably, and the other (motherboard) USB ports don't work well, I'd get the motherboard replaced. With the reliance on USB for so much of the motherboard interfacing, it's important that you get a fully working one. Paul |