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From: Shenan Stanley on 15 Jun 2010 12:53
news.microsoft.com wrote:
> Bought a copy of MS Streets & Trips short time ago. I already had a
> number of GPS programs but bought the package because it included a
> small GPS receiver that connects to a usb port.
>
> S&T works as expected, GPS receiver doesn't work anywhere near
> reliably, perhaps 5% of time (at first, doesn't seem to do more
> than light up now) and has never kept working longer than a few
> minutes.
> And that's across 4 pcs so I think it safe to assume it's toast
> given everything works properly when I hook up my standalone Garmin
> GPS to any of these software packages.
>
> MS takes no responsibility for the peice of hardware, even stating
> in the packaging (only readable after opening) to go to Pharos (GPS
> manufacturer) for support for it. Pharos simply stated 'take it
> back and get your money back'!!! Dealer won't take it back as it
> was old stock when I bought it at a loss already for him instead
> telling me to "send it in for warranty".
> WHAT F***ING WARRANTY does one have when both pass the buck for
> brand new item.
>
> So I end up swallowing another cost for something that doesn't work
> and never did.
>
> MS, you wonder why I will try first and sometimes continue to use
> "pirated" software. You steal money out of my pocket continually
> for defective products so it's the only way to protect myself.

Microsoft North American Retail Product Refund Guidelines
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.mspx

What *exact* Streets and Trips version is this and what was the date of
purchase?

- Streets & Trips 2006 with GPS Locator
(http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=9977)
- Streets & Trips 2007 with GPS Locator
(http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=11947)
- Streets & Trips 2008 with GPS Locator
(http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=12565)
- Streets & Trips 2009 with GPS Locator
(http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=13795)
- Streets & Trips 2010 with GPS Locator
(LifeCycle not listed yet)

The reason for the query should be obvious.

Tried to get help from Microsoft if it is still a supported product?

MapPoint / Streets & Trips / AutoRoute Solution Center
http://support.microsoft.com/ph/1058#tab0

Specifically:
Contact a support professional by E-mail, Online, or Phone
http://support.microsoft.com/gethelp/default.aspx?content=ph;en-us;1058

Reasonable questions, I think.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


From: Bob I on 15 Jun 2010 14:16


news.microsoft.com wrote:
> "Bob I" <birelan(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ugxQFvIDLHA.1368(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>>
>>news.microsoft.com wrote:
>>
>>>"Bob I" <birelan(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:OOHKUn7CLHA.5464(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Since the software works, and that isn't what your beef is, WHY are you
>>>>ranting here? Also thanks for telling the world you are a self proclaimed
>>>>thief!
>>>
>>>
>>>I bought it for the hardware (included GPS transponder). Certainly didn't
>>>care if I had S&T as I already have OziExplorer, Garmin Mapsource,
>>>MapPoint (later ver than the S&T) and MapSend. I'll repeat, the included
>>>hardware doesn't work hence I should be able to get a refund which I
>>>can't as no-one takes any responsibility. That's what the rants about!
>>>
>>
>>This pretty much sums it up
>>http://support.microsoft.com/kb/894511
>>
>
>
> Been there, tried all methods on 3 separate pcs. Everything appears ok
> software wise and it certainly should get a signal when it's 100' (laptop
> first then dragged two separate desktops out on extension cord trying) or so
> facing south into 2 acre+ freshly mowed field (BIG lawn :). Damn thing has
> come alive occasionally but goes dead after few minutes use is "best"
> experience to date. Just wanted the thing to permanently mount on 4x4 with
> old laptop running OziExplorer (preferred as it uses very hi-res aerial
> photos of local area I have rather than canned commercial maps) when back in
> woods rather than having to use new Garmin handheld (which works with all
> systems over all software).
>
> I'm far from rich, old geezer limited pension. Money I spent wasn't trivial
> to me and I feel like I've been robbed, e.g. someone just reached in took
> from me and left nothing of value.
>
>

If the store refuses to take it back and Pharos says thats the method of
fixing the issue perhaps you paid with a credit card, and have some
recourse there?

From: news.microsoft.com on 15 Jun 2010 16:04

"Shenan Stanley" <newshelper(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e4Q8%23sKDLHA.4744(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> news.microsoft.com wrote:
>> Bought a copy of MS Streets & Trips short time ago. I already had a
>> number of GPS programs but bought the package because it included a
>> small GPS receiver that connects to a usb port.
>>
>> S&T works as expected, GPS receiver doesn't work anywhere near
>> reliably, perhaps 5% of time (at first, doesn't seem to do more
>> than light up now) and has never kept working longer than a few
>> minutes.
>> And that's across 4 pcs so I think it safe to assume it's toast
>> given everything works properly when I hook up my standalone Garmin
>> GPS to any of these software packages.
>>
>> MS takes no responsibility for the peice of hardware, even stating
>> in the packaging (only readable after opening) to go to Pharos (GPS
>> manufacturer) for support for it. Pharos simply stated 'take it
>> back and get your money back'!!! Dealer won't take it back as it
>> was old stock when I bought it at a loss already for him instead
>> telling me to "send it in for warranty".
>> WHAT F***ING WARRANTY does one have when both pass the buck for
>> brand new item.
>>
>> So I end up swallowing another cost for something that doesn't work
>> and never did.
>>
>> MS, you wonder why I will try first and sometimes continue to use
>> "pirated" software. You steal money out of my pocket continually
>> for defective products so it's the only way to protect myself.
>
> Microsoft North American Retail Product Refund Guidelines
> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.mspx
>

That's a guideline no company is forced to follow so it's a lot like
insurance bureau, better business bureau etc. and basically is the self
serving make people feel good before fact bs common to all.

> What *exact* Streets and Trips version is this and what was the date of
> purchase?

S&T 2008 with included GPS. Installed fine, validated etc. no problem and
software itself works. Less than 2 months old in original packaging. Isn't
the warranty from date of purchase and not date plastic was put on package?
>
> - Streets & Trips 2006 with GPS Locator
> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=9977)
> - Streets & Trips 2007 with GPS Locator
> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=11947)
> - Streets & Trips 2008 with GPS Locator
> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=12565)
> - Streets & Trips 2009 with GPS Locator
> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=13795)
> - Streets & Trips 2010 with GPS Locator
> (LifeCycle not listed yet)
>
> The reason for the query should be obvious.
>
> Tried to get help from Microsoft if it is still a supported product?

MS supports the software but all indications from all support angles
indicate they pass off any hardware problems to that manufacturer even
though there's no mention of any other than MS involved on packaging when
making purchase decision. Hence the subject line.

>
> MapPoint / Streets & Trips / AutoRoute Solution Center
> http://support.microsoft.com/ph/1058#tab0
>
> Specifically:
> Contact a support professional by E-mail, Online, or Phone
> http://support.microsoft.com/gethelp/default.aspx?content=ph;en-us;1058

Been there, done that, as said hardware good-bye and go see hardware
manufacturer.

>
> Reasonable questions, I think.
>
> --
> Shenan Stanley
> MS-MVP
> --
> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>

I't does look like perhaps Pharos is going to make some effort anyway. They
refused anything to do with it via email support but after a phone call and
an argument about "How can a consumer that goes into a store to buy
something supposed to know that product was made 'x' time ago so no longer
under warranty." they have agreed to "take a look at it" with no promises
provided I send everything to them including even the USB extension cable.
Now have to remember which of the 1/2 dozen of those is the one came with
the unit as I tried a few during debugging sessions and I have a feeling
they'll use any excuse to avoid any sense of responsibility.


From: SC Tom on 15 Jun 2010 19:46

"news.microsoft.com" <pjp_is_located_@_hotmail_dot_com> wrote in message
news:udXV0ZMDLHA.3880(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>
> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e4Q8%23sKDLHA.4744(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> news.microsoft.com wrote:
>>> Bought a copy of MS Streets & Trips short time ago. I already had a
>>> number of GPS programs but bought the package because it included a
>>> small GPS receiver that connects to a usb port.
>>>
>>> S&T works as expected, GPS receiver doesn't work anywhere near
>>> reliably, perhaps 5% of time (at first, doesn't seem to do more
>>> than light up now) and has never kept working longer than a few
>>> minutes.
>>> And that's across 4 pcs so I think it safe to assume it's toast
>>> given everything works properly when I hook up my standalone Garmin
>>> GPS to any of these software packages.
>>>
>>> MS takes no responsibility for the peice of hardware, even stating
>>> in the packaging (only readable after opening) to go to Pharos (GPS
>>> manufacturer) for support for it. Pharos simply stated 'take it
>>> back and get your money back'!!! Dealer won't take it back as it
>>> was old stock when I bought it at a loss already for him instead
>>> telling me to "send it in for warranty".
>>> WHAT F***ING WARRANTY does one have when both pass the buck for
>>> brand new item.
>>>
>>> So I end up swallowing another cost for something that doesn't work
>>> and never did.
>>>
>>> MS, you wonder why I will try first and sometimes continue to use
>>> "pirated" software. You steal money out of my pocket continually
>>> for defective products so it's the only way to protect myself.
>>
>> Microsoft North American Retail Product Refund Guidelines
>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.mspx
>>
>
> That's a guideline no company is forced to follow so it's a lot like
> insurance bureau, better business bureau etc. and basically is the self
> serving make people feel good before fact bs common to all.
>
>> What *exact* Streets and Trips version is this and what was the date of
>> purchase?
>
> S&T 2008 with included GPS. Installed fine, validated etc. no problem and
> software itself works. Less than 2 months old in original packaging. Isn't
> the warranty from date of purchase and not date plastic was put on
> package?
>>
>> - Streets & Trips 2006 with GPS Locator
>> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=9977)
>> - Streets & Trips 2007 with GPS Locator
>> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=11947)
>> - Streets & Trips 2008 with GPS Locator
>> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=12565)
>> - Streets & Trips 2009 with GPS Locator
>> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=13795)
>> - Streets & Trips 2010 with GPS Locator
>> (LifeCycle not listed yet)
>>
>> The reason for the query should be obvious.
>>
>> Tried to get help from Microsoft if it is still a supported product?
>
> MS supports the software but all indications from all support angles
> indicate they pass off any hardware problems to that manufacturer even
> though there's no mention of any other than MS involved on packaging when
> making purchase decision. Hence the subject line.
>
>>
>> MapPoint / Streets & Trips / AutoRoute Solution Center
>> http://support.microsoft.com/ph/1058#tab0
>>
>> Specifically:
>> Contact a support professional by E-mail, Online, or Phone
>> http://support.microsoft.com/gethelp/default.aspx?content=ph;en-us;1058
>
> Been there, done that, as said hardware good-bye and go see hardware
> manufacturer.
>
>>
>> Reasonable questions, I think.
>>
>> --
>> Shenan Stanley
>> MS-MVP
>> --
>> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>
>
> I't does look like perhaps Pharos is going to make some effort anyway.
> They refused anything to do with it via email support but after a phone
> call and an argument about "How can a consumer that goes into a store to
> buy something supposed to know that product was made 'x' time ago so no
> longer under warranty." they have agreed to "take a look at it" with no
> promises provided I send everything to them including even the USB
> extension cable.

Don't the instructions say NOT to use any kind of extension or USB hub, that
the GPS needs to be plugged directly into a USB port?
--
SC Tom


> Now have to remember which of the 1/2 dozen of those is the one came with
> the unit as I tried a few during debugging sessions and I have a feeling
> they'll use any excuse to avoid any sense of responsibility.
>

From: news.microsoft.com on 16 Jun 2010 01:17

"SC Tom" <sc(a)tom.net> wrote in message
news:thURn.8015$1Q5.2923(a)newsfe08.iad...
>
> "news.microsoft.com" <pjp_is_located_@_hotmail_dot_com> wrote in message
> news:udXV0ZMDLHA.3880(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>>
>> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:e4Q8%23sKDLHA.4744(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> news.microsoft.com wrote:
>>>> Bought a copy of MS Streets & Trips short time ago. I already had a
>>>> number of GPS programs but bought the package because it included a
>>>> small GPS receiver that connects to a usb port.
>>>>
>>>> S&T works as expected, GPS receiver doesn't work anywhere near
>>>> reliably, perhaps 5% of time (at first, doesn't seem to do more
>>>> than light up now) and has never kept working longer than a few
>>>> minutes.
>>>> And that's across 4 pcs so I think it safe to assume it's toast
>>>> given everything works properly when I hook up my standalone Garmin
>>>> GPS to any of these software packages.
>>>>
>>>> MS takes no responsibility for the peice of hardware, even stating
>>>> in the packaging (only readable after opening) to go to Pharos (GPS
>>>> manufacturer) for support for it. Pharos simply stated 'take it
>>>> back and get your money back'!!! Dealer won't take it back as it
>>>> was old stock when I bought it at a loss already for him instead
>>>> telling me to "send it in for warranty".
>>>> WHAT F***ING WARRANTY does one have when both pass the buck for
>>>> brand new item.
>>>>
>>>> So I end up swallowing another cost for something that doesn't work
>>>> and never did.
>>>>
>>>> MS, you wonder why I will try first and sometimes continue to use
>>>> "pirated" software. You steal money out of my pocket continually
>>>> for defective products so it's the only way to protect myself.
>>>
>>> Microsoft North American Retail Product Refund Guidelines
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.mspx
>>>
>>
>> That's a guideline no company is forced to follow so it's a lot like
>> insurance bureau, better business bureau etc. and basically is the self
>> serving make people feel good before fact bs common to all.
>>
>>> What *exact* Streets and Trips version is this and what was the date of
>>> purchase?
>>
>> S&T 2008 with included GPS. Installed fine, validated etc. no problem and
>> software itself works. Less than 2 months old in original packaging.
>> Isn't the warranty from date of purchase and not date plastic was put on
>> package?
>>>
>>> - Streets & Trips 2006 with GPS Locator
>>> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=9977)
>>> - Streets & Trips 2007 with GPS Locator
>>> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=11947)
>>> - Streets & Trips 2008 with GPS Locator
>>> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=12565)
>>> - Streets & Trips 2009 with GPS Locator
>>> (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=13795)
>>> - Streets & Trips 2010 with GPS Locator
>>> (LifeCycle not listed yet)
>>>
>>> The reason for the query should be obvious.
>>>
>>> Tried to get help from Microsoft if it is still a supported product?
>>
>> MS supports the software but all indications from all support angles
>> indicate they pass off any hardware problems to that manufacturer even
>> though there's no mention of any other than MS involved on packaging when
>> making purchase decision. Hence the subject line.
>>
>>>
>>> MapPoint / Streets & Trips / AutoRoute Solution Center
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/ph/1058#tab0
>>>
>>> Specifically:
>>> Contact a support professional by E-mail, Online, or Phone
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/gethelp/default.aspx?content=ph;en-us;1058
>>
>> Been there, done that, as said hardware good-bye and go see hardware
>> manufacturer.
>>
>>>
>>> Reasonable questions, I think.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shenan Stanley
>>> MS-MVP
>>> --
>>> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
>>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>>
>>
>> I't does look like perhaps Pharos is going to make some effort anyway.
>> They refused anything to do with it via email support but after a phone
>> call and an argument about "How can a consumer that goes into a store to
>> buy something supposed to know that product was made 'x' time ago so no
>> longer under warranty." they have agreed to "take a look at it" with no
>> promises provided I send everything to them including even the USB
>> extension cable.
>
> Don't the instructions say NOT to use any kind of extension or USB hub,
> that the GPS needs to be plugged directly into a USB port?
> --

Yes, that is one of the debugging steps. As mentioned tried that on a laptop
and two desktops. Think that is mostly to guard against a bad extension
cable though as clearly if it's directly connected to the usb port on a pc
it has restricted access to the sky to pick up sats. Using a known good
extension cable hasn't been any different than without in how reliable the
product is.

> SC Tom
>
>
>> Now have to remember which of the 1/2 dozen of those is the one came with
>> the unit as I tried a few during debugging sessions and I have a feeling
>> they'll use any excuse to avoid any sense of responsibility.
>>
>


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