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From: stephe_k on 26 Mar 2010 17:01 tony cooper wrote: > > However, this part of the thread pertains to the ridiculous claim that > NASA constitutes a market for space shuttles. NASA does not shop for > space shuttles. > Which has no relevance whatsoever into the discussion of why a manufacturer would DISABLE hardware that already exists in a cheaper model in their lineup. To even insinuate that anyone other than the marketing people would do this is silly! Stephanie
From: stephe_k on 26 Mar 2010 17:05 tony cooper wrote: > > For there to be a market for space shuttles, companies must build > space shuttles and then try to find buyers for them. Rockwell, and > other companies, will be bidding on the chance to build something to > the specifications that NASA provides. > > And it's not like there were several price points of space shuttles, that rockwell disabled certain features in software, that existed in hardware or would cost no more to use, to entice NASA to buy the more expensive model. THAT is what this thread is about. Stephanie
From: tony cooper on 26 Mar 2010 17:47 On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:07:47 -0700, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote: >On 2010-03-26 11:27:40 -0700, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> said: > >> In message <jdqpq5hbci9cu5ni5h4m4ic44qsidloh7p(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper >> <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:20:26 -0400, "J. Clarke" >>> <jclarke.usenet(a)cox.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 3/26/2010 9:57 AM, tony cooper wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:18:55 -0400, "Neil Harrington"<never(a)home.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "tony cooper"<tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:tjlmq5d52141e66cpl37fnm3q9unu06d0l(a)4ax.com... >>>>>>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 02:22:35 -0400, "Neil Harrington"<never(a)home.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So who do YOU think gave the engineering department the green light to >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> the research for the project? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Management. Of course. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You seem to think that "management" is a separate function. In >>>>>>> actuality, some of the management people and some of the engineering >>>>>>> people are in management. Some of the top management will come from >>>>>>> the engineering side and some from the marketing side. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And how many space shuttles did they sell to the public? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is my point. The space shuttle was not designed for the mass market. >>>>>>>> Neither was the $25,000 Kodak DSC. Ergo, there was no particular reason >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> your "marketing people" to be involved. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's a silly example. The shuttle was not designed to be re-sold so >>>>>>> there is no "market" involved. >>>>>> >>>>>> You think Rockwell built it for NASA for free? >>>>>> >>>>>> How are resellers necessary for a market to exist? Many houses (perhaps >>>>>> most) are built to sell directly to the end buyer. Are these not >>>>>> part of the >>>>>> housing market? >>>>>> >>>>>> In the case of space shuttles, NASA is the market, is it not? >>>>> >>>>> No. NASA is contracting with suppliers to furnish components. That >>>>> does not fit any definition of "the market". "The market" is the >>>>> potential buyers of something offered for sale. The shuttle was never >>>>> offered for sale. >>>> >>>> So you're saying that the whole defense industry is not a market? >>>> That's news to the contractors. >>> >>> The defense industry is a market to firms that supply goods and >>> services to the defense industry. The military is a market to firms >>> that produce products used in defense. >> >> And there are many militaries who want goods. In fact several in most >> countries. > > >...and then there are Law Enforcement agencies. >Just in California, the State, Police agencies, and County Sherif's >Departments have equipment budgets which spend millions every year. > >Every year my old agency purchases, handguns, Remington 870 shotguns, >M16A4 rifle, M4 rifle, Heckler & Kock (H&K) MP5A5's, H&K MP5N's, >counter sniper rifles from various suppliers, Ruger Mini-14 rifles, >40mm & 37mm grenade launchers, Chemical Agent, grenades & projectiles, >and establish ammunition supply contracts. > >Then there is vehicle purchase. Ford had the Police Interceptor Crown >Victoria monopolizing the market for quite a while after GM dropped the >PD Caprice. Now there is a new Ford on the way, the Dodge Charger, BMW, >and several others eyeing that market. Add on non-patrol vehicles and >you are looking at $100s of millions for vehicles alone. > >The other 49 States might not have budgets as big, but they are considerable. >> >> >>> However, this part of the thread pertains to the ridiculous claim that >>> NASA constitutes a market for space shuttles. NASA does not shop for >>> space shuttles. >> >> It is a "market" with one customer.... > >...and there is a massive industry made up of many suppliers feeding >off that single customer, and its sub-agencies such as JPL. None of this addresses the question of "Is there a market for space shuttles?" NASA is a market for many products from many suppliers. It is not a market for space shuttles. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: tony cooper on 26 Mar 2010 17:52 On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:18:24 -0400, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet(a)cox.net> wrote: >On 3/26/2010 3:40 PM, tony cooper wrote: >> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:22:58 -0500, Walter Banks >> <walter(a)bytecraft.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> tony cooper wrote: >>> >>>> However, this part of the thread pertains to the ridiculous claim that >>>> NASA constitutes a market for space shuttles. NASA does not shop for >>>> space shuttles. >>>> >>> >>> Sort of. Rockwell built them after a bidding war. The next round looks like >>> several private suppliers will be bidding for business. Spacex has >>> already launched a satellite after three tries and have plans to launch cargo >>> and crew capsules to the space station. >> >> There is a significant difference, at least in my mind, between >> shopping for a product and shopping for a vendor to build a product to >> my specifications. > >So you're saying that there is no "market" for custom work? >> For there to be a market for space shuttles, companies must build >> space shuttles and then try to find buyers for them. Rockwell, and >> other companies, will be bidding on the chance to build something to >> the specifications that NASA provides. > >You're splitting hairs. Not at all. I'm sticking with one thing: Is there a market for space shuttles?" and answering "No". -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: tony cooper on 26 Mar 2010 17:56
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:01:05 -0400, "stephe_k(a)yahoo.com" <stephe_k(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >tony cooper wrote: > >> >> However, this part of the thread pertains to the ridiculous claim that >> NASA constitutes a market for space shuttles. NASA does not shop for >> space shuttles. >> > >Which has no relevance whatsoever into the discussion of why a >manufacturer would DISABLE hardware that already exists in a cheaper >model in their lineup. To even insinuate that anyone other than the >marketing people would do this is silly! Thread subjects are not cast in concrete. Any point of a discussion can be addressed. What I'm addressing is the ludicrous example of there being a market for space shuttles. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |