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From: Phildo on 15 Jun 2010 05:46 http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527524.100-crystals--sound--water--clean-hydrogen-fuel.html.
From: Gareth Magennis on 17 Jun 2010 17:17 "Phildo" <Phil(a)phildo.net> wrote in message news:hv7i60$li5$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527524.100-crystals--sound--water--clean-hydrogen-fuel.html. > Interesting if true. Sounds kind of similar to the HHO controversy. Basically, some sort of "Catalytic" thing allegedly going on. Problem is, no hard Scientific evidence to support the Hypothesises.
From: liquidator on 19 Jun 2010 10:59 "Gareth Magennis" <sound.service(a)btconnect.com> wrote in message news:EhwSn.3380$cG5.2882(a)hurricane... > > > "Phildo" <Phil(a)phildo.net> wrote in message > news:hv7i60$li5$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527524.100-crystals--sound--water--clean-hydrogen-fuel.html. >> > > > Interesting if true. > > Sounds kind of similar to the HHO controversy. Basically, some sort of > "Catalytic" thing allegedly going on. Problem is, no hard Scientific > evidence to support the Hypothesises. > I've seen a million ideas like this. One in a million, if even that, actually works. There is no free energy, only recovering energy, and storing it. In sincerely doubt in this case the energy recovered is going to be worth the cost of getting it. The trick is to find efficient ways of storage....what if say you could store heat during the summer and release it in winter? Would reduce both air conditioning and heating costs. We air condition out buildings by pumping the heat outside, then use electricity or gas to heat water for use. Why not use the heat the AC scavenges from the air to heat water? I don't think there will be a "magic idea" like in this article. Just an efficient reversible reaction...or several.
From: Leon on 19 Jun 2010 22:05 On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:59:19 -0400, "liquidator" <mikeh(a)mad.scientist.com> wrote: > >"Gareth Magennis" <sound.service(a)btconnect.com> wrote in message >news:EhwSn.3380$cG5.2882(a)hurricane... >> >> >> "Phildo" <Phil(a)phildo.net> wrote in message >> news:hv7i60$li5$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527524.100-crystals--sound--water--clean-hydrogen-fuel.html. >>> >> >> >> Interesting if true. >> >> Sounds kind of similar to the HHO controversy. Basically, some sort of >> "Catalytic" thing allegedly going on. Problem is, no hard Scientific >> evidence to support the Hypothesises. >> > >I've seen a million ideas like this. One in a million, if even that, >actually works. > >There is no free energy, only recovering energy, and storing it. > >In sincerely doubt in this case the energy recovered is going to be worth >the cost of getting it. > >The trick is to find efficient ways of storage....what if say you could >store heat during the summer and release it in winter? Would reduce both air >conditioning and heating costs. > > We air condition out buildings by pumping the heat outside, then use >electricity or gas to heat water for use. Why not use the heat the AC >scavenges from the air to heat water? > > I don't think there will be a "magic idea" like in this article. Just an >efficient reversible reaction...or several. > I live near a lake where 50 years ago people used to cut ice in the winter, and store it for use in the summer. Lots of work... You know why air conditioners are rated in tons? Thats how much ice they replace! You'd need a storage area bigger than your house to cool it for all summer. As for sound energy, the average speaker is only 5% efficient, so a 1000 watt system will give you 50 watts, and if you can only recover 20% of that, thats 10 watts. Now thats for ALL of the energy. From any given listening point, you'd be lucky to recover a few milliwatts. Water is the ashes from burnt hydrogen... :)
From: liquidator on 20 Jun 2010 11:21
<Leon(a)nospam.com> wrote in message news:e7tq16p2m2qd9c93m8sfpnu7q0e5o7gupc(a)4ax.com... > On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:59:19 -0400, "liquidator" > I live near a lake > where 50 years ago people used to cut ice in the winter, and > store it for use in the summer. Lots of work... You know why air > conditioners > are rated in tons? Thats how much ice they replace! You'd need a storage > area > bigger than your house to cool it for all summer. But see, that is part of the problem....people tend to think only in terms of what they have SEEN. We need new ideas... You totally blew by the word "efficient" in my post...I don't think you meant the ice idea was efficient? Take a look at the reversible hand warmers...the ones you boil in a pan, then reactivate to give off heat. Those are probably a hundred times more efficient than the ice idea. And still way inefficient. But at least an improvement. If we reduce consumption 25% by more efficient devices, then another 25% by efficient delivery and storage, we have just doubled the length of time before finite resources run out.We haven't replaced them, but we have seriously reduced pollution. If I exaggerated those numbers, it was just to make a point. We will have to make a zillion incremental improvements. There is no one big solution. Here's a thought...gases are liquified by compression, which gives off heat. Liquefy nitrogen in the winter, funnel the scrap heat released into the buildings. It will take less energy to liquefy nitrogen , at least slightly less, if you start at a lower temperature. Store the liquid nitrogen in huge underground tanks. It can be pumped thru insulated pipes to where cooling is needed in the summer.... I am not saying that can be done efficiently, but it has at least a chance...I'm not a detail person, more of a conceptualist. But I'm just trying to give you an idea of directions I think we need to look at, not specific ideas. |