From: Ray Fischer on 28 Nov 2009 03:23
George Kerby <ghost_topper(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>You should have bamboo stuck under your fingernails while being consciously
>eviscerated with a rusty crowbar, you fecal feaster.
Oh my! Do we all need some Anger Management courses in here, or what?
George Kerby in <C55E9C54.1A409%ghost_topper(a)hotmail.com>
From: tony cooper on 30 Nov 2009 22:48
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:08:51 +0000, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org>
>In message <4b0f25c9$0$1631$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net>, Ray Fischer
>>Frank ess <frank(a)fshe2fs.com> wrote:
>>>A reminder of what we truly /must/ give thanks for:
>>>War Veterans Memorial, Mt Soledad, LaJolla, California
>>Thankgiving is not a "christian" holiday and it is not a patriotic
>>holiday. It has nothing to do with war (that's Memorial Day) and it
>>has nothing to do with the cross (that's Easter). It's a day for
>The cross I though was a generic Christian symbol and not just for
>As you say it is not about "war" though I thought (btw I am not
>American so this is a genuine request for information) that it was
>thanks giving for landing in the Americas safely and making the
No, the original (US) Thanksgiving was simply a harvest festival
similar to the celebrations in Europe that had been observed for
centuries. The popularly accepted "first Thanksgiving" in America
(not yet the United States) was in Plymouth, Massachusetts in 1621.
The previous year's harvest had been scant, but the 1621 harvest was
There were other harvest festivals in 1619 (Berkeley Plantation,
Virginia) and in 1620, but the biggie was in 1621. There was no
recorded harvest festival in 1622, but there was one in 1623.
The Americans didn't invent Thanksgiving. We just gave it a specific
name and a designated day of the week (Thursday). There have been
harvest celebrations all over the world in agricultural civilizations,
and most of them have some sort of religious tie-in. What the
Americans did was make it a designated and official holiday in 1789 by
proclamation of President Washington. George may have been thankful
about defeating the British, but it was still a harvest festival.
It was not a religious event, but the celebrants were religious so
they were thankful to God. It's on a Thursday because the early
harvest festivals lasted for two or three days, and it had to be over
by Sunday. It wasn't proper to have a festival on the Sabbath.
If you look into any American holiday or custom you'll find some
precedent for it in Europe. We have different names, and celebrate
differently, but the origins go back to Europe. You might say that
our Independence Day (July 4th) holiday is purely American, but the
idea of celebrating a victory or defining event in the history of the
country is not at all just American.
>It would be "Christian" as most/all? of them were some what zealous in
>their Christian beliefs hence leaving Europe. I am not sure that
>originally it was "patriotic" as there was no country as such to be
>patriotic about? Didn't that come later?
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: C J Campbell on 1 Dec 2009 10:46
On 2009-11-30 19:48:18 -0800, tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> said:
> It was not a religious event, but the celebrants were religious so
> they were thankful to God. It's on a Thursday because the early
> harvest festivals lasted for two or three days, and it had to be over
> by Sunday. It wasn't proper to have a festival on the Sabbath.
Quite right. I am deeply religious, so I also am thankful to God on
Thanksgiving. I really do not care who or what others thank on that
day. They can thank The Light from World of Warcraft, if they wish. I
do think it is an appropriate day to give thanks to anyone or any group
that makes your life better.
I might point out that most of the celebrants at the first Thanksgiving
in America were pagans who worshipped trees and rocks, if they
worshipped anything at all. The Pilgrims held the feast at least in
part to thank these people who helped them survive that terrible first
World Famous Flight Instructor
From: C J Campbell on 1 Dec 2009 10:55
On 2009-11-30 23:01:03 -0800, John McWilliams <jpmcw(a)comcast.net> said:
> Thanks for putting a broad perspective on this. I wonder if Black
> Friday and/or Cyber Monday might be American 'festivals' that did
> indeed start on these shores.
Black Friday, I believe, started at Montgomery Ward. I could be wrong;
it might have been some other giant retailer that started it.
Montgomery Ward did create Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Nothing
more American or less religious than that. :D
As a deeply religious person, I am well aware and very thankful that a
secular America has made it possible to worship God after my own
manner. Had I been born in pre-American Europe, I almost certainly
would have been burned at the stake.
World Famous Flight Instructor
From: NameHere on 1 Dec 2009 22:55
On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:50:48 -0500, tony cooper
>The Pilgrims were the hosts, and the Wampanoag Indians
>were the guests.
Wow! Are YOU ever fuckingly ignorant.