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From: rc on 9 Mar 2010 07:39
Airsmoothed, internally on an IDE bus.
"airsmoothed" <airsmoothed(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bb5bce1d-9010-4d63-a20b-3ccac98becdf(a)o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 9, 12:03 pm, "rc" <rc(a)home> wrote:
> Thanks. I'll give it a try. Another question....can it be a compatibility
> problem? Also, how would I know? I was using a 20GB, WDCWD200BB-75DEA0 and
> trying to migrate to 80GB Hitachi (HDS728080PLAT20).
> Additional note** The last time I tried to format the new hard drive I
> received a message at the very end that "Windows was unable to complete
> format". thanks again"Paul" <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hn48lm$jk9$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>
> > rc wrote:
> >> Now the computer using the new disk will not boot. The windows XP
> >> screen
> >> begins and then promptly keeps attempting to restart. As far as I could
> >> tell the migration went ok (solely based on the completion
> >> messages/results given by the Acronis software). I'm assuming the
> >> migration would include making the disk bootable???
> >> Before I attempted any "cloning" I formatted the new disk and ran ckdsk
> >> and no errors were reported. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> > That sounds like you partitioned the disk, and then used Acronis to
> > copy just the files across. Perhaps you could use Acronis to just
> > make a complete copy of the old C: partition ? That is likely the
> > easiest option. I'm not an Acronis user, as I have enough junk
> > of one sort and another here, to get the job done.
>
> > *******
>
> > When I've done that (just copy files from old partition, to newly
> > prepared formatted partition), the bit that is missing is the boot
> > sectors. A program like Robocopy (Microsoft) can be used to copy files
> > and preserve permissions and so on. But it doesn't copy the boot
> > sectors.
>
> > The boot sectors can be put back, by using the Recovery Console and
> > "fixboot".
> > You take a WinXP installer CD, boot that, and select Recovery Console.
> > "fixboot" is a command available, once you're running in the Recovery
> > Console.
> > It isn't clear to me, how you'd get a Recovery Console, if you had a
> > Dell.
>
> > "Recovery Console overview"
> >http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/prodd...
>
> > "To install the Recovery Console as a startup option"
> >http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/prodd...
>
> > (List of commands, including fixboot. Fixboot accepts a drive letter, so
> > you
> > can fix that new disk.)
>
> >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314058
>
> > So perhaps there is some other option in Acronis. It would be pretty
> > silly if it couldn't copy a bootable partition with it. I don't use
> > Acronis here. (Copying sector by sector, then using Partition Magic,
> > is the way I do it.)
>
> > *******
>
> > To copy sector by sector, I use "dd" or Disk Dump. There is even a
> > port for Windows. If your new disk is bigger than the old disk, you
> > can copy the entire disk with one command, like this
>
> > dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb
>
> > That would copy all the partitions from one disk to another, and
> > even copy the MBR in sector 0. The Windows port of "dd", uses
> > a different naming convention for disks (the Windows naming
> > conventions),
> > but you use the "dd --list" option, to get names for all the disks.
>
> > Once the disk is copied, the partitions would be the wrong size.
> > By using my copy of Partition Magic, I could resize any partition
> > as desired. Since the new disk is bigger than the old, I might resize
> > one of the partitions, to use the slack space left on the new disk.
>
> > If I wanted to copy just one partition, in the Linux world the
> > partitions
> > are numbered. The Windows naming convention also numbers the partitions.
> > (Partition0 is the whole disk. Partition1 is just the first partition.)
>
> > dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/hdb1
>
> > I would first need to make a new entry in the MBR of the output disk.
> > I set that up using "fdisk" in Linux, which allows me to define
> > primary partitions on a new disk. I suppose I could also do that
> > from Disk Management, and save time by not formatting the partition.
> > (Since I'm about to replace all the sectors in that partition by doing
> > a sector by sector copy.) Then, I can use "dd" to copy the
> > sectors.
>
> > So it is easy to be a bit more surgical, but the problem remains
> > that the partition must be resized after this step is complete.
> > There is at least one free package for Windows, that will do
> > partition resizing. I have an older copy of Partition Magic, that
> > I use once in a while for this, so I haven't needed to use the free
> > one. (Since you'd only be using the free partition resizer on your
> > new, cloned disk, there is little danger of any permanent damage,
> > as you can start over again if it screws up.)
>
> > The port of "dd" is here. This runs in a Command (MSDOS) window.
>
> >http://www.chrysocome.net/dd
>
> > To review the four primary partition entries, if I'm in Windows,
> > I can use this. ptedit32 is a free download. This allows me to
> > compare the partitions of the source and destination disks, if I
> > need to. (I can also do that using "fdisk" in Linux if I wanted.
> > It all depends on where I am, as to which I might use.) I use this,
> > when I need exact numbers for sizes.
>
> > PTEDIT32 for Windows
>
> >ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PT...
>
> > PTEDIT32 screenshot
>
> >http://www.vistax64.com/attachments/vista-installation-setup/7308d122...
>
> > Basically, what I'd be looking for there, is confirmation that the
> > source partition and destination partition, are the same size. So
> > there are no "accidents" when using "dd".
>
> > "dd" can be used to copy all or a part of something. It takes
> > a block size argument, a count argument, and using those arguments
> > can make "dd" run about three times faster. The command also accepts
> > seek and skip options, for snipping just a section out of a partition
> > or a single file. I haven't given any examples of that in the above,
> > but I have used seek/skip, when trying to find the metadata on a
> > raid array. Since I don't have a disk editor program, I can snip a
> > couple meg up near the end of the disk, and then use a regular hex
> > editor to look at the data.
>
> > *******
>
> > I think getting Acronis to take care of this, is your best option right
> > now. Screwing around is for when you've got more time. I learned how
> > to do this stuff, by experimenting, and when you take the time into
> > account for making mistakes, this isn't a one day learning experience.
> > So far (knocks on wood), I haven't destroyed any source disks :-)
>
> > Paul

Not that it should make any difference, but how is the Hitachi drive
connected, internally on an IDE bus, or in an external caddy?


From: Paul on 9 Mar 2010 07:46
rc wrote:
> Thanks. I'll give it a try. Another question....can it be a compatibility
> problem? Also, how would I know? I was using a 20GB, WDCWD200BB-75DEA0 and
> trying to migrate to 80GB Hitachi (HDS728080PLAT20).
> Additional note** The last time I tried to format the new hard drive I
> received a message at the very end that "Windows was unable to complete
> format". thanks again

I did a search on "hard drive limits" and this is the first article
I found.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/482/5

It points out, that older BIOS addressed disks by CHS (cylinder,head,sector)
rather than LBA, and this caused some of the lower limits. But those were
BIOS limits - in other words, boot time problems.

The ATA IDE standard has 28 bit and 48 bit addressing. 28 bits allows
addressing to 137GB (decimal). That is a limitation you can see for
yourself, while attempting to install Windows on a new disk. I tested
my early version of Win2K, and when it offers to prepare a large drive,
it only offers up to 137GB when that version of Win2K is used. I also
tested a later version of Win2K, patched to SP4, and it offered
to partition the entire large drive. So it would go past the 137GB
limitation. WinXP requires a Service Pack as well, to prepare and
install an entire large hard drive.

With regard to "Windows was unable to complete the format", the search
results mainly seemed to involve things like FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 and their
limits. So you may be attempting to do something outside the limits
of your choice. WinXP doesn't like to support formatting FAT32 any larger
than about 32GB or so. I think the FAT32 standard works up to 2TB, and you
can find separate formatting tools that will handle the job for you. NTFS
shouldn't have a limit like that (Windows won't limit you to 32GB when you
ask for NTFS). Microsoft imposed a limitation on the OS tool, to encourage
people to use NTFS for large file systems. I use NTFS for archive volumes
(where I keep Linux distros I've downloaded) and NTFS supports individual
files larger than 4GB in size. That is my main reason for using it. On my
C: drive right now, it is still FAT32. (It means I can easily read
that drive from an MSDOS boot floppy.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table

This is an example of a formatter, that will handle large drives and make
them FAT32 if you want. I've used this one, when working with my 160GB disks.

http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?fat32format.htm

The Windows "convert" command, can change a FAT32 partition to NTFS. I don't
know if it likes to go in the reverse direction. So you can change from
one to the other, without having to backup and restore to do it.

Anyway, think about what you're trying to do, what kind of storage
device it is (USB flash, IDE hard drive, SATA hard drive), and maybe
you can make more sense of the error message.

With regard to the 137GB limit, this document, from a few years back, had
advice on various ways to make large IDE ribbon cable drives work. Seagate
removed this from their site, but there is an archived copy. The archive
site is temperamental - if you can't get the doc, try later. This site
has amazing hardware, but less than sterling uptime. It has something
like 5500 1TB drives mounted in a shipping container, as well as its
original racks of equipment.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070121085230/http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/tp/137gb.pdf

Right now, the only thing I can think of, is you tried to make the entire
80GB a FAT32 partition. The fat32format program should be able to handle
that for you. You can use Disk Management in Windows, to partition the
disk (but not format it). Then use the separate formatter program
to finish the job. The formatter works quite quickly.

I don't keep a lot of neat notes about all this stuff, and when something
gets in my way, I just start bashing on it :-) It helps to have a few
tools in the tool belt.

Paul
From: Anna on 9 Mar 2010 18:19

"rc" <rc(a)home> has written...
> I am running out of space on my hard drive and want to migrate to a larger
> one. Can I "copy" my current hard drive onto a larger one? Is it
> necessary to purchase software to do so. PC running SP with all the SP
> packages. Also would hate to have to reinstall the many programs involved.
> Thanks.

> Now the computer using the new disk will not boot. The windows XP screen
> begins and then promptly keeps attempting to restart. As far as I could
> tell the migration went ok (solely based on the completion
> messages/results given by the Acronis software). I'm assuming the
> migration would include making the disk bootable???
> Before I attempted any "cloning" I formatted the new disk and ran ckdsk
> and no errors were reported. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

> Thanks. I'll give it a try. Another question....can it be a compatibility
> problem? Also, how would I know? I was using a 20GB, WDCWD200BB-75DEA0
> and trying to migrate to 80GB Hitachi (HDS728080PLAT20).
> Additional note** The last time I tried to format the new hard drive I
> received a message at the very end that "Windows was unable to complete
> format". thanks again


rc:
1. First of all we'll start with the premise that your current system
involving the 20 GB HDD boots without incident and functions properly in all
respects, i.e., as far as you can determine there are *no* problems with the
system. That's right, isn't it? Because if it isn't, don't go any further.
If there are any issues and/or problems that exist they must be overcome
before you can undertake what you have termed a "migration" of data from the
old HDD to a new one.

2. Based on the various posts in this thread I assume you've attempted to
use the Acronis True Image program to undertake the disk-cloning operation;
possibly their trial version. Is that correct? Or have you been using the
Seagate DiscWizard program which, as Paul pointed out, is a derivative of
the ATI program (basically an earlier version of the ATI program)? The
reason I mention the latter program is that our experience with the Seagate
version (although we haven't used it for some time now) was quite negative
in that we found the program very erratic in properly carrying out its
disk-cloning function.

3. You mentioned a problem formatting the new 80 GB HDD. Ordinarily it is
unnecessary to format the disk if you're using a disk-cloning program to
clone the contents of the "source" HDD (in your case the 20 GB HDD) to the
"destination" disk (the 80 GB HDD). There's no harm in doing so but it's
unnecessary.

Your "Additional note" indicates that "the last time" you were unable to
format the new HDD. Yet you previously indicated that you did format that
disk apparently successfully. Was the unsuccessful formatting operation
undertaken following the unsuccessful disk-cloning operation? Is that why
you attempted to again format that disk?

4. Have you repeated the disk-cloning operation with the Acronis program a
number of times? Always with the same results in that the cloning operation
seems to proceed normally (no error messages from Acronis) but the system
will not boot with the new HDD?

5. IMMEDIATELY following the disk-cloning operation have you disconnected
the old 20 GB HDD so that the *only* HDD (or any other storage device)
connected in the system is the 80 GB HDD? And you've connected the drive as
Primary Master in your system? And you've checked the BIOS as you boot to
determine that the boot priority order setting indicates a first boot to
that 80 GB HDD?
Anna

which obviously indicates something is amiss. Did you attempt the formatting
using XP's Disk Management utility? Did you connect the disk as an internal
(secondary) HDD in your system to do so? Or did you install it in an
external enclosure using USB connectivity?

Do you have any clue as to why the formatting process was unsuccessful? Did
you check out the HDD


From: Anna on 9 Mar 2010 18:34

> "rc" <rc(a)home> has written...
>> I am running out of space on my hard drive and want to migrate to a
>> larger one. Can I "copy" my current hard drive onto a larger one? Is it
>> necessary to purchase software to do so. PC running SP with all the SP
>> packages. Also would hate to have to reinstall the many programs
>> involved. Thanks.
>
>> Now the computer using the new disk will not boot. The windows XP screen
>> begins and then promptly keeps attempting to restart. As far as I could
>> tell the migration went ok (solely based on the completion
>> messages/results given by the Acronis software). I'm assuming the
>> migration would include making the disk bootable???
>> Before I attempted any "cloning" I formatted the new disk and ran ckdsk
>> and no errors were reported. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
>> Thanks. I'll give it a try. Another question....can it be a
>> compatibility problem? Also, how would I know? I was using a 20GB,
>> WDCWD200BB-75DEA0 and trying to migrate to 80GB Hitachi
>> (HDS728080PLAT20).
>> Additional note** The last time I tried to format the new hard drive I
>> received a message at the very end that "Windows was unable to complete
>> format". thanks again


"Anna" <myname(a)myisp.net> wrote in message
news:ulJYN89vKHA.4552(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> rc:
> 1. First of all we'll start with the premise that your current system
> involving the 20 GB HDD boots without incident and functions properly in
> all respects, i.e., as far as you can determine there are *no* problems
> with the system. That's right, isn't it? Because if it isn't, don't go any
> further. If there are any issues and/or problems that exist they must be
> overcome before you can undertake what you have termed a "migration" of
> data from the old HDD to a new one.
>
> 2. Based on the various posts in this thread I assume you've attempted to
> use the Acronis True Image program to undertake the disk-cloning
> operation; possibly their trial version. Is that correct? Or have you been
> using the Seagate DiscWizard program which, as Paul pointed out, is a
> derivative of the ATI program (basically an earlier version of the ATI
> program)? The reason I mention the latter program is that our experience
> with the Seagate version (although we haven't used it for some time now)
> was quite negative in that we found the program very erratic in properly
> carrying out its disk-cloning function.
>
> 3. You mentioned a problem formatting the new 80 GB HDD. Ordinarily it is
> unnecessary to format the disk if you're using a disk-cloning program to
> clone the contents of the "source" HDD (in your case the 20 GB HDD) to the
> "destination" disk (the 80 GB HDD). There's no harm in doing so but it's
> unnecessary.
>
> Your "Additional note" indicates that "the last time" you were unable to
> format the new HDD. Yet you previously indicated that you did format that
> disk apparently successfully. Was the unsuccessful formatting operation
> undertaken following the unsuccessful disk-cloning operation? Is that why
> you attempted to again format that disk?
>
> 4. Have you repeated the disk-cloning operation with the Acronis program a
> number of times? Always with the same results in that the cloning
> operation seems to proceed normally (no error messages from Acronis) but
> the system will not boot with the new HDD?
>
> 5. IMMEDIATELY following the disk-cloning operation have you disconnected
> the old 20 GB HDD so that the *only* HDD (or any other storage device)
> connected in the system is the 80 GB HDD? And you've connected the drive
> as Primary Master in your system? And you've checked the BIOS as you boot
> to determine that the boot priority order setting indicates a first boot
> to that 80 GB HDD?
> Anna
>
> which obviously indicates something is amiss. Did you attempt the
> formatting using XP's Disk Management utility? Did you connect the disk as
> an internal (secondary) HDD in your system to do so? Or did you install it
> in an external enclosure using USB connectivity?
>
> Do you have any clue as to why the formatting process was unsuccessful?
> Did you check out the HDD


rc:
At least for the moment, disregard the "postscript" following my sig.
Anna


From: ybS2okj on 9 Mar 2010 20:36

It's amazing. Not a single word about Casper here! What happened to your
favorite Casper Anna? Have you dropped it and moved on to something new?


"Anna" <myname(a)myisp.net> wrote in message
news:ulJYN89vKHA.4552(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>

> rc:
> 1. First of all we'll start with the premise that your current system
> involving the 20 GB HDD boots without incident and functions properly in
> all respects, i.e., as far as you can determine there are *no* problems
> with the system. That's right, isn't it? Because if it isn't, don't go any
> further. If there are any issues and/or problems that exist they must be
> overcome before you can undertake what you have termed a "migration" of
> data from the old HDD to a new one.
>
> 2. Based on the various posts in this thread I assume you've attempted to
> use the Acronis True Image program to undertake the disk-cloning
> operation; possibly their trial version. Is that correct? Or have you been
> using the Seagate DiscWizard program which, as Paul pointed out, is a
> derivative of the ATI program (basically an earlier version of the ATI
> program)? The reason I mention the latter program is that our experience
> with the Seagate version (although we haven't used it for some time now)
> was quite negative in that we found the program very erratic in properly
> carrying out its disk-cloning function.
>
> 3. You mentioned a problem formatting the new 80 GB HDD. Ordinarily it is
> unnecessary to format the disk if you're using a disk-cloning program to
> clone the contents of the "source" HDD (in your case the 20 GB HDD) to the
> "destination" disk (the 80 GB HDD). There's no harm in doing so but it's
> unnecessary.
>
> Your "Additional note" indicates that "the last time" you were unable to
> format the new HDD. Yet you previously indicated that you did format that
> disk apparently successfully. Was the unsuccessful formatting operation
> undertaken following the unsuccessful disk-cloning operation? Is that why
> you attempted to again format that disk?
>
> 4. Have you repeated the disk-cloning operation with the Acronis program a
> number of times? Always with the same results in that the cloning
> operation seems to proceed normally (no error messages from Acronis) but
> the system will not boot with the new HDD?
>
> 5. IMMEDIATELY following the disk-cloning operation have you disconnected
> the old 20 GB HDD so that the *only* HDD (or any other storage device)
> connected in the system is the 80 GB HDD? And you've connected the drive
> as Primary Master in your system? And you've checked the BIOS as you boot
> to determine that the boot priority order setting indicates a first boot
> to that 80 GB HDD?
> Anna
>
> which obviously indicates something is amiss. Did you attempt the
> formatting using XP's Disk Management utility? Did you connect the disk as
> an internal (secondary) HDD in your system to do so? Or did you install it
> in an external enclosure using USB connectivity?
>
> Do you have any clue as to why the formatting process was unsuccessful?
> Did you check out the HDD
>
>


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