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From: David H. Lipman on 15 Sep 2005 12:25
From: "Duane Arnold" <Notme(a)Notme.com>

|
| "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
| news:2%fWe.35908$vQ3.25749(a)trnddc08...
>> From: "Duane Arnold" <Notme(a)Notme.com>
>>
|>> <jrefactors(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
|>> news:1126761720.798936.250370(a)f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> What's the differences between
>>>>
>>>> router contains a built-in switch
>>>> and
>>>> router without a built-in switch??
|>>
|>> A router with a built-in switch works on the same principles as a
>> standalone
|>> switch. A router with a built in switch can be configured to just be a
|>> switch and not a router by disabling the DHCP server on the router and
>> then
|>> it's just a standalone switch.
|>>
|>> http://www.homenethelp.com/web/explain/about-hubs-and-switches.asp
|>>
|>> I don't know about routers without a built-in switch.
|>>
>>>> Some routers even have built-in firewall.
|>>
|>> Some routers use a packet filter FW solution like SPI some don't and
>> some
|>> routers use more than SPI a more powerful packet filter.
|>>
|>> Most NAT routers for home usage fall into the category of the link
>> below.
|>>
|>> http://www.homenethelp.com/web/explain/about-NAT.asp
|>>
|>> About firewalls
|>>
|>> http://www.more.net/technical/netserv/tcpip/firewalls/
|>>
|>> What does a computer, router or appliance running a network/Internet FW
>> do?
|>>
>> http://www.firewall-software.com/firewall_faqs/what_does_firewall_do.html
|>>
>>>> I saw many routers in the market has built-in switch, but I don't know
>>>> why, and what's the advantages?
|>>
|>> see link above about hubs and switches
|>>
|>> Duane :)
|>>
>> Duane:
>>
>> Disabling DHCP on a Router with an E-Switch is often insufficient. uPnP
>> would also have to
>> be disabled. There have been posts about this here, in dcom.modems.cable
>> and dcom.xdsl.
>> Disabling the Router part will depend upon the vendor and model
>> Router+E-switch.
|
| OK, I'll go with the uPuP thing, but most of the time that's disabled by
| default is it not? It's been awhile since I last looked at a router for home
| usage.
|
>> One last point. SOHO Router's with built-in E-switches tend to have high
>> switching
>> latencies. Thus their cheap price. This may or may not be a problem in a
>> SOHO environment.
>> For those that need excellent transfer rates between LAN nodes, they may
>> choose to get a
>> Router without an E-switch and get a managed E-switch from; Foundry,
>> Nortel, 3Com, CISCO,
>> etc.
|
| But for the average home user network where a router was converted into a
| switch to plug into a gateway router of FW appliance, I don't think it's
| much of a concern. I did that with the Linksys BEFW11S4 v1 router and for
| wired or wireless machines using it as a switch, I didn't notice anything.
| It was business as usual.
|
| Duane :)
|

Duane:

I can't speak for all models of all vendors but, uPnP does come disabled on Linksys.

You are right, the avg. user won't see the latency. However, I have seen it when Ghosting
across a BEFSR81 so I ran some tests with like equipment in 100Mb/s Full-Duplex . When I
used an Intel (discontinued) managed E-switch I got much higher transfer rates than with the
BEFSR81. This translated to Ghosting across the wire took much more time to complete on the
BEFSR81. Unlike the BEFSR41, the BEFSR81 supports QoS and is intended for the business
user.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm


From: jrefactors on 16 Sep 2005 11:10

CJT wrote:
> The combination might be cheaper than the two parts separately.
> And then it's only one thing to plug in.
>
If I only want to connect to 3 PC in a LAN, the router has 4 ethernet
ports and it can do the job. If I want to connect more than 4 PC, then
I need a switch. This is the scenario of two parts separately.

I still don't understand because router with built-in switch has 4
ports also, how does it function as the combination of router and
switch together?

Here's different types of routers I looked at:

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?childpagename=US%2FLayout&packedargs=c%3DL_Product_C1%26cid%3D1118334622279&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

BEFSR41 EtherFast® Cable/DSL Router with 4-Port Switch V4.0 (4 ports)
BEFSR11 EtherFast® Cable/DSL Router (1 port)
BEFSR81 EtherFast® Cable/DSL Router with 8-Port Switch V3.0 (8 ports)

Another question, if the router has more than 1 port, then it must be
router with built-in switch. Is that correct assumption? Because the
traditional broadband router should only has 1 port?


please advise more... thanks!!

From: Volker Birk on 16 Sep 2005 11:19
In comp.security.firewalls jrefactors(a)hotmail.com wrote:
> I still don't understand because router with built-in switch has 4
> ports also, how does it function as the combination of router and
> switch together?

A router is doing packet forwarding in a special way in layer 3, while
a switch is doing frame forwarding in layer 2, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Router
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_switch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model#Description_of_layers

> Another question, if the router has more than 1 port, then it must be
> router with built-in switch. Is that correct assumption?

No. A router at least has two network interfaces, because it's a
multi-homed host.

Yours,
VB.
--
"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
From: David H. Lipman on 16 Sep 2005 12:14
From: "CJT" <abujlehc(a)prodigy.net>

< snip >

|
| yes (theoretically it could be a hub rather than a switch, but I doubt
| anybody does that)
|

< snip >

An Ethernet switch can NOT be a hub. Hubs only re-time signals. Hubs are basically
multi-port repeaters. Switches have active electronics to decide what MAC address packet
goes to what port and have a cache to memorize MAC addresses. On an E-switch, each port is
a collision domain. On a hub all ports are on the same collision domain. Therefore a
E-switch can not be a hub and vice versa. This is not theory, it is a fact.

As for the Linksys Routers they are all good. Albeit, I have yet to install a BEFSR41 v4.0

You had one. I have installed many !

I have installed numerous BEFSR41 v1, v2 and v3 Routers. No problems with any.
I am presently using a BEFSR81, a business class Router that support QoS. I have installed
all v1, v2 and v3 but just nearly as many as the BEFSR41 models.

The BEFSR11 is a waste unless one already owns or plans to own a managed Ethernet switch.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm


From: David H. Lipman on 16 Sep 2005 12:29
From: <jrefactors(a)hotmail.com>

|
| CJT wrote:
>> The combination might be cheaper than the two parts separately.
>> And then it's only one thing to plug in.
>>
| If I only want to connect to 3 PC in a LAN, the router has 4 ethernet
| ports and it can do the job. If I want to connect more than 4 PC, then
| I need a switch. This is the scenario of two parts separately.
|
| I still don't understand because router with built-in switch has 4
| ports also, how does it function as the combination of router and
| switch together?
|
| Here's different types of routers I looked at:
|
|
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?childpagename=US%2FLayout&packedargs=c%3DL_Product_C1%26cid%3D1118334622279&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper
|
| BEFSR41 EtherFastý Cable/DSL Router with 4-Port Switch V4.0 (4 ports)
| BEFSR11 EtherFastý Cable/DSL Router (1 port)
| BEFSR81 EtherFastý Cable/DSL Router with 8-Port Switch V3.0 (8 ports)
|
| Another question, if the router has more than 1 port, then it must be
| router with built-in switch. Is that correct assumption? Because the
| traditional broadband router should only has 1 port?
|
| please advise more... thanks!!


Get the Linksys BEFSR41. It will allow you to connect four computers (or any TCP/IP
Ethernet devices such as a Print Server or a game box [ XBox, Playstation/2, etc.]) If you
plan on 5 or more computers than you can gert the BEFSR81.

You said "...how does it function as the combination of router and switch together? "

Think of the device as a Black Box. On the input side (WAN) it connects to an Internet IP
address. On the output side (LAN) it fans out to four connections. Inside that Black Box,
the device uses Network Address Translation (NAT) to take a WAN IP address (i.e;
71.254.72.3) and based upon the requests made by a PC on the LAN side will translate the IP
address to a Private Address such as 192.168.1.100.

All you have to know is that the device uses NAT to convert any of the addresses in the
following range (192.168.1.2 ~ 192.168.1.254) to the address obtained from the Internet
side. That's the NAT Router part. On the LAN side you can connect up to 253 computers.
This is obtained by chainingg hubs or Ethernet switches to the LAN side of the Router. The
BEFSR81 already supplies you with 8 ports for up to 8 computers. The BEFSR41 already
supplies you with 4 ports for up to 4 computers. However if you chain an Ethernet switch
(or hub but switches are preferred) than you can multiply the number of computers.

For example; Using the BEFSR41 and a 12-port Ethernet switch that has 1 upload port and 12
usable ports.
Three computers would connect to the BEFSR41. The Ethernet switch's upload port would be
connected to the fourth port on the BEFSR41. Thus with this combination, you can have up to
15 Ethernet devices using the Router.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm


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