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From: David H. Lipman on 16 Sep 2005 21:54
From: "CJT" <abujlehc(a)prodigy.net>

| David H. Lipman wrote:
>> From: "CJT" <abujlehc(a)prodigy.net>
>>
>> < snip >
>>
|>> yes (theoretically it could be a hub rather than a switch, but I doubt
|>> anybody does that)
|>>
>> < snip >
>>
>> An Ethernet switch can NOT be a hub.
|
| That's like saying red can't be green. I didn't say a hub could be a
| switch. I said a hub could be combined with a router, just as a switch
| can be combined with a router. But I doubt anybody does.

That's not what you said.. What you said is above < snip> and that is what I responded to.
Now if you meant something else, your wording made it come out differently.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm


From: Travis on 18 Sep 2005 01:47
Yousuf Khan wrote:
> jrefactors(a)hotmail.com wrote:
> > What's the differences between
> >
> > router contains a built-in switch
> > and
> > router without a built-in switch??
>
> These days all home broadband routers contain a built-in switch. Now
> whether they are good-quality switches vs. standalone switches is a
> matter of debate.
>
> In the olden days you had home routers that only had one port for
> the WAN side, and one port for the LAN side, and nothing else. That
> meant that if you wanted to connect multiple computers to that LAN
> side, then you had to buy a seperate hub or switch. I had one of
> those types of routers, it was an old Linksys. I had to connect the
> LAN port to a hub, and then I could connect computers to the hub.
>
> Now, I hope you know what the difference is between a hub and a
> switch. If not, then a switch is just a more sophisticated suped-up
> hub. Whereas hubs had a lot of collisions between packets as
> multiple computers tried to access the Ethernet simultaneously, the
> switch took the hub concept and made it a much more managed
> experience. It's sort of like the difference between a road with
> traffic lights and a road without.
>
> > Some routers even have built-in firewall.
>
> Actually, all home routers have a built-in firewall. It's a natural
> feature that emerges from how they work. They can't help but also
> act as firewalls. They use a feature called NAT (natural address
> translation) which means that they give all computers in the LAN
> these special fake IP addresses which can't be seen on the
> Internet, only the router's own WAN IP address can be seen --
> natural firewall.
>
>
> > I saw many routers in the market has built-in switch, but I don't
> > know why, and what's the advantages?
>
> Avoid having to pay for an additional network component, if
> everything is built in. Cheaper to package it all together.
>
> Yousuf Khan

It is called Network Address Translation.

--


Travis in Shoreline Washington
From: jameshanley39 on 18 Sep 2005 08:06



jrefactors(a)hotmail.com wrote:
> What's the differences between
>
> router contains a built-in switch
> and
> router without a built-in switch??
>
> Some routers even have built-in firewall.
>
> I saw many routers in the market has built-in switch, but I don't know
> why, and what's the advantages?
>
> please advise. thanks!!

I think you will find that the truth is far far worse than you could
ever imagine.

'home routers' are - i've been told - are not routers. They are NAT
devices. They contain a switch. And a firewall. And a modem.


Regarding 'routers' without a built in switch . May be a real router.
Or it may be a simple thing.
Often so-called DSL Modems like ones made by DLink or Linksys, are
actually 'home routers' with only 1 port. NAT devices without a
switch. so if you want to connect many computers, then attach your own
switch.

Professional proper routers (like Cisco) have many ports, each is a
router interface, each with its own IP. Each is for a connected
network.
No switch.

a NAT Device receiving an incoming packet, does not 'route it', it does
not decide what network to sends the packet to. Only your network is
attached. It just allows it or rejects it. And depending on how it is
configured, sends the packet to whatever computer is attached. Go to
www.whatismyip.com and i you're behind a NAT device, you get the IP
Address of your NAT device. People send packets not to you, but to
your NAT device. Your NAT device does port forwarding to choose which
of your comp on your network to send it to. This is not routing at
all. Routing is about deciding which network to (not which comp and not
just on 1 network) send it to, using routing tables, and the Sending
computer will include the Dest IP of teh network to send to. With NAT,
the sending computer only specifies the NAT device. So the NAT device
is choosing which comp to send it to. With a *Router*, (not a 'home
router'). Packets are not addressed to the Router, they are addressed
to the comp. The Router doesn't choose which local comp to send it to,
it looks at the IP, sees it doesn't have to route it anywhere, since it
is on a directly connected network, and it sends it to the right
computer.


I am a newbie, and will be using real routers this year! But I read
about them. I am just interested in computers and connecting them
together. So, frmo a techie perspective, a real router is more fun.

>From a consumer perspective. If you only need one network (very
likely), then a NAT device ('home router') is fine.

Linksys make good 'home routers'(NAT Devices), get one with a built in
switch. And a hole for a telephone cable - meaning it has a built in
modem. 4 port switch, So you can attach - say - 4 computers. If you
want more you can connect another switch to a port anyway.

From: David H. Lipman on 18 Sep 2005 10:19
From: "Leythos" <void(a)nowhere.lan>

|
| They do not contain a Firewalll.
|
| They do not contain a MODEM.
|
| They do contain a Switch.
|
| They do contain a NAT routing function and also do RIP1 and RIP2, which
| makes them routers.
|
| --
|
| spam999free(a)rrohio.com
| remove 999 in order to email me

Actually...

The MAY contain any or all of these. It all depends on makes and models.
For example the Estwll 327W is both a DSL modem in Bridge mode and a DSL Modem/Router when
placed in Router mode.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm


From: David H. Lipman on 18 Sep 2005 10:21
From: "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net>


|
| Actually...
|
| The MAY contain any or all of these. It all depends on makes and models.
| For example the Estwll 327W is both a DSL modem in Bridge mode and a DSL Modem/Router when
| placed in Router mode.
|
| --
| Dave
| http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
| http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
|

That should have been "Westell 327W" not "Estwll 327W" :-(

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm


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