From: lkcl on
On Jun 9, 5:12 am, rantingrick <rantingr...(a)> wrote:
> But you know i think it boils down to fear really. He is comfortable
> in his life and wishes to keep it as cookie cutter as he can. Any
> outside influence must be quashed before these meddling forces can
> take hold of him. He is so fearful of seeing the light in an opposing
> argument that blinding himself from reality is easier than facing
> reality.

a very wise person told me a phrase which he'd heard, and i believe
it's relevant and hope you won't mind me quoting it:

"stress is where the mind compares the internal world with the
external, cannot cope with the discrepancy, and places blame on the
*external* world".

there's food for thought in that, for all concerned. nobody's
actions, here, are "wrong", they just "are".

From: lkcl on
On Jun 9, 8:45 am, Lie Ryan <lie.1...(a)> wrote:
> On 06/09/10 08:20, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:

> > I do think it is technically possible to have your own window manager in
> > python on x11 but I have no idea if you have equal possibilities on mac
> Doesn't Mac uses an X server as well?

not by default, no. you have to install it (from the XCode bundle/


p.s. i skipped replying to the other message but yes there is actually
an implementation of x11 directly in pure python. you can use it to
write window managers in it. but it's _not_ an x11 server
implementation, it's just equivalent to... ooo... probably libx11:
i.e. it connects to e.g. KDE, GDM, Fvwm and sends and responds to
From: Stephen Hansen on
On 6/12/10 12:21 AM, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
>> Otherwise it makes certain windows-workarounds very problematic. You
>> basically /have/ to write a C extension :|
> That's not problematic at all, for the standard library. Just write that
> C extension.

Come now, of course it is. It may not be problematic for *you*, but it
*is* problematic for a lot of people.

The pool of people competent to write solid, Pythonic, capable Python
code and contribute it-- then add a few lines of ctypes for a
windows-specific workaround-- is surely larger then the pool of people
competent to write a safe C extension.

I know I only *barely* fit into the latter category.

Maybe Cython'll be mature enough eventually that the stdlib could accept
Cython-based "C" extensions for such cases.


Stephen Hansen
... Also: Ixokai
... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io
... Blog:

From: lkcl on
On Jun 9, 5:16 pm, Ethan Furman <et...(a)> wrote:
> Gregory Ewing wrote:
> > Kevin Walzer wrote:
> >> PyGUI ... certainly is *not* a lightweight GUI toolkit that could
> >> easily be incorporated into the Python core library--it instead has
> >> rather complex dependencies on both other GUI toolkits and Python
> >> wrappers of those toolkits.
> > I don't see how the dependencies could be regarded as "complex".
> > There's more or less only one on each platform, and they're
> > pretty standard accessories for the platform concerned. You could
> > say there are two on Linux if you count gtk itself, but you almost
> > certainly already have it these days if you're running any
> > kind of desktop at all.
> *Alert*  Potentially dumb question following:  On the MS Windows
> platform, Gtk is not required, just win32?

by using python-comtypes and python-ctypes, you can pretty much
control absolutely anything that's installed, and access just about
anything: any win32 dll, any function. some of the function
parameters you might have to guess, but it's doable.

in this way you can actually access the win32 GDI (graphics driver
interface) which is a serrriously low-level GUI toolkit built-in to
the win32 API, and can implement much higher-level APIs on top of it.
GDI is somewhat at the level of the X11 protocol.

as it's so low-level, the number of applications which actually do
this is _extremely_ small. the only reason i got involved at all was
to do the aaaabsolute minimum amount of work required to embed _one_
single object instance into a GDI window, taking up the entire width
and height: an IWebBrowser2 OCX control, lifted straight out of

you can look at what i did, here:;a=tree;f=pyjd;hb=master

see and is lifted straight out of a
library by henk punkt; is a mish-mash amalgam of various bits
of code i found by googling for 3 weeks solid on variations of "python
MSHTML IWebBrowser2" and so on. much of the work that i found i had
to go back _years_, to older versions of python and older python
libraries that have long since been retired because nobody bothered
with the techniques that were offered.

so, yah. thanks to henk punkt's little module, it's
possible to "appear" to have direct access to win32 functions such as
"CreateWindowEx", and thanks to python-comtypes it's possible to get
access to the COM interface of DLLs and then you're off (in this case,
with the fairies).

From: lkcl on
On Jun 9, 5:38 pm, rantingrick <rantingr...(a)> wrote:

> Yes we need a leader. Someone who is not afraid of the naysayers.
> Someone with Guido's vision. When the leader emerges, the people will
> rally.

... Mahh? Whey'rus ma guuhhn? haww haww