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From: Howard Brazee on 13 Jul 2010 10:32 On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:56:51 -0700 (PDT), Richard <riplin(a)Azonic.co.nz> wrote: >So, apparently, Montreal does speak English as well as French, and so >does French ATC. Times change, especially when safety is concerned. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison
From: SkippyPB on 13 Jul 2010 10:44 On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:30:45 -0600, Howard Brazee <howard(a)brazee.net> wrote: >On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:12:45 -0600, James Gavan <jgavan(a)shaw.ca> >wrote: > >>> Similarly, the only International Airport that has air traffic >>> controllers not speak English is Montreal. >>> >>> >>Well almost anything can happen in la belle province. What used to be a >>very staunch Catholic province, controlled by the clergy both morally >>and politically, is now fanatically secular. A Jesuit school just >>challenged the Quebec government through the courts and currently won. >>The government demanded that the particular school follow the Provincial >>Education department idea as to what teaching religion is about, one of >>those vanilla flavoured curriculum 'where everybody's religion gets a >>mention'. Needless to say, while the prime emphasis for the Jesuits is >>teaching catholicism, in the modern more 'open' world, they do make >>reference to other religions. > >Interesting problem - literate education requires knowledge of various >religions, their stories, and their beliefs. And certainly in this >small world, knowing the beliefs of people around the world matters. >At least the handful of large, influential religions. > >(I don't care that a particular mountain is sacred to some aboriginal >- let's treat the whole world as if it's sacred). > Great point. If that were true, we wouldn't need environmentalists and the dodo bird (among others) would not be extinct. >>Montreal air traffic - are you speaking from experience when you were a >>USAF flyboy ? > >Not directly (never flew into Canada at all), but via hearsay. And I >haven't flown in decades. > I was in the Montreal airport in the summer of 2005 and I don't recall that (no English) being the case. I was catching a flight to Switzerland and had about an hour and a half layover. >I have listened on the radio to a pilot talking with ATC - only to >find out later that he didn't speak English enough to converse - only >enough to do his job. > >... > >>I kinda think that both India and China just might be clamouring for >>local versions ? Quite likely in India the emphasis is on English >>because they do a lot of outsourcing work contracted from N. America. >>China I would have thought, is more likely to be interested in the >>domestic market, and without any slight intended I would have thought >>Indian education, (those old Empire roots), would be superior to the >>Chinese version ? > >Also, English is an official language of India. It is the language >that virtually all Indian businesses larger than family size must be >able to converse in. > Most educated Indians must speak 3 languages; English, Hindi and whatever the language of their tribe/village is. Most people in the USA are lucky they speak some form of English that is understood by everyone else. >But to a lesser extent, it is the lingua franca of the world. If you >can do business in English, you can do business around the world. So true. Regards, -- //// (o o) -oOO--(_)--OOo- "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you're probably the executioner." -- Elden Carnahan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Remove nospam to email me. Steve
From: Pete Dashwood on 13 Jul 2010 10:46 Richard wrote: > On Jul 13, 11:19 am, "Pete Dashwood" > <dashw...(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >> Howard Brazee wrote: >>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:54:51 -0700 (PDT), Alistair >>> <alist...(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >>>> The use of English and Spanish (I presume; No Habla Espanole) in >>>> this thread has made me wonder about the compilers used in >>>> non-English speaking countries: are they forced to use English or >>>> are there language options which allow the use of local languages? >> >>> I've read that the only place where non-English CoBOL compilers have >>> been available is France. I don't know if that is true or ever has >>> been true. >> >>> Similarly, the only International Airport that has air traffic >>> controllers not speak English is Montreal. >> >> I believe you because I know you are ex USAF and up on these things, >> Howard. (And I have respect for your knowledge and integrity, from >> observing your posts here over years.) But, as a private pilot, I >> find that frightening and I would have thought it is also illegal. >> There are many airports around the world where controllers are >> multilingual, but English HAS to be the first language used, as I >> understand it. I understood there were international agreements >> about this. Have they been revoked for Montreal? >> >> Are you absolutely certain they do "not speak English"? >> >> Pete. >> -- >> "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything." > > A quick google turns up: > > """I'm a french controller so it will be easy to answer your question: > for now there is no possibility to listen to live atc from France but > i don't think it's illegal.Perhaps in a close future it will be > possible. > About the langage used by us with the pilots: it's french or > english.In fact a controller speaks at the same time in english to > international pilots and in french with pilots of Air France...that > causes in fact some problems of comprehension because pilots don't > understand all that the controller says... so there is a project (but > it's just a project) which recommends to use only english langage: but > it will not happen before about 10 years I think...""" > > > """Good day. I do listen to Montreal ACC in french and english, > depending on the pilot. It's fun hearing the weather and ATC > instructions in french. It's like trying a different flavor.""" > > So, apparently, Montreal does speak English as well as French, and so > does French ATC. Well, that's a relief... :-) (Not that I'm likely to be landing myself there any time soon... :-)) Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Vince Coen on 13 Jul 2010 12:59 <26a0bca1-96a1-4019-b01f-b944d4239e94(a)u26g2000yqu.googlegroups.com> <qc8m36lu3amkc38vdotjn3rs673mu5fg1a(a)4ax.com> iF6M15) Hello Howard! 12 Jul 10 15:09, Howard Brazee wrote to All: > Similarly, the only International Airport that has air traffic > controllers not speak English is Montreal. I doubt that, the ICAO rules require ALL NATS, ATC etc to speak English on the radio abd this is throughout the world. Which is real convenient for me as my non-english skills are poor, short of ordering a drink/meal. In my travels around almost the whole of Europe including France, Germany, The Yugoslav block, Russia, the Anericas, Caribean (where english is not the native lang.) etc English is always used. What the problem is, is that should say a native French pilot be flying at a local airfield, french is used, but if you are also using said airfield you can request that english be used (so you know where trafic is) they will do so. All that said, some places the english accent is so bad you still struggle to understand which can make life intersting when using small airports but there again the solution is simple -- only use main international or commercial airports. For the USA pilots and unlike the USA, in Europe the cheap places to land are the non internation/commercial fields but it's a catch22 situation but if it is IFR then the options are somewhat reduced. Vince
From: Howard Brazee on 13 Jul 2010 13:22
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:44:44 -0400, SkippyPB <swiegand(a)Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote: >>>Montreal air traffic - are you speaking from experience when you were a >>>USAF flyboy ? >> >>Not directly (never flew into Canada at all), but via hearsay. And I >>haven't flown in decades. >> > >I was in the Montreal airport in the summer of 2005 and I don't recall >that (no English) being the case. I was catching a flight to >Switzerland and had about an hour and a half layover. Were you listening to the pilots and controllers? -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |