VS 2010 is cheaper
in [MFC]
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From: Joseph M. Newcomer on 4 Mar 2010 17:17 My major complaints about 2010, at least in the beta I downloaded, are that they didn't fix most of the problems of the previous versions. Edit-and-continue, for example, is still broken. OTOH, we get modern C++, the Parallel Patterns Library, cool performance evaluation tools (see, for example, MSDN Magazine for March, 2010, p.56ff), and a bunch of other really good features; better integration of what was called the "Feature Pack" (but the defaults in building a project are COMPLETELY wrong!), complete support for end users doing menu and shortcut customization, and a bunch of other things that make it worthwhile. Compare, for example, the $250 SDK from 1990 with VS2010 at $299 (or even $799) and you will see that it is really a bargain. I've been using it for a couple weeks now, and while I've found some bugs (and have no idea how to report them!) they are bugs-of-annoyance and bugs-of-stupid-selection-of-defaults and bugs-of-design-we've-been-complaining-about-for-a-decade. But I've not hit any *real* bugs. Of course, I don't use Intellinonsense, which for all its hype in the rewrite has most of the serious defects of the earlier versions (e.g., binding to the expanded API and not the formal API, failing to list sets of flags and enumeration values, etc.), and the defects of the editor are irrelevant since the biggest defect in the editor is its fundamental attitude that someone other than me knows best how I should work. joe On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), Ajay Kalra <ajaykalra(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >On Mar 4, 1:45�pm, "David Ching" <d...(a)remove-this.dcsoft.com> wrote: >> A while ago, we were bemoaning the loss of VS 2010 Standard, and the price >> of VS 2008 Professional (presumably with a free upgrade to 2010) was >> something like $1500 USD. >> >> Now there are new VS 2010 prices.http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Microsoft-Offers-Dea... >> >> Basically if you have VS 2005/2008 Standard, you can get VS2010 Standard for >> $299. �And even if you are totally new to VS, you can get VS2010 >> Professional for $799 and upgrade for $549. �And Professional now comes with >> MSDN Essentials. �So the prices are much cheaper than we had been led to >> believe. > >Comments about the product in this NG havent been that glorifying >though. I Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP] email: newcomer(a)flounder.com Web: http://www.flounder.com MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm
From: Sheng Jiang [MVP] on 4 Mar 2010 17:31 To report VS2010 bugs, go to connect.microsoft.com/visualstudio. There are a lot of new stuff in 2010, but I've heard WPF causes performance problems when using it. "Joseph M. Newcomer" <newcomer(a)flounder.com> wrote in message news:o0c0p59r0t547hpi5ts8ki8kg4hqd7n1ov(a)4ax.com... > My major complaints about 2010, at least in the beta I downloaded, are > that they didn't > fix most of the problems of the previous versions. Edit-and-continue, for > example, is > still broken. > > OTOH, we get modern C++, the Parallel Patterns Library, cool performance > evaluation tools > (see, for example, MSDN Magazine for March, 2010, p.56ff), and a bunch of > other really > good features; better integration of what was called the "Feature Pack" > (but the defaults > in building a project are COMPLETELY wrong!), complete support for end > users doing menu > and shortcut customization, and a bunch of other things that make it > worthwhile. > > Compare, for example, the $250 SDK from 1990 with VS2010 at $299 (or even > $799) and you > will see that it is really a bargain. > > I've been using it for a couple weeks now, and while I've found some bugs > (and have no > idea how to report them!) they are bugs-of-annoyance and > bugs-of-stupid-selection-of-defaults and > bugs-of-design-we've-been-complaining-about-for-a-decade. But I've not > hit any *real* > bugs. > > Of course, I don't use Intellinonsense, which for all its hype in the > rewrite has most of > the serious defects of the earlier versions (e.g., binding to the expanded > API and not the > formal API, failing to list sets of flags and enumeration values, etc.), > and the defects > of the editor are irrelevant since the biggest defect in the editor is its > fundamental > attitude that someone other than me knows best how I should work. > joe > > On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 11:13:43 -0800 (PST), Ajay Kalra <ajaykalra(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > >>On Mar 4, 1:45 pm, "David Ching" <d...(a)remove-this.dcsoft.com> wrote: >>> A while ago, we were bemoaning the loss of VS 2010 Standard, and the >>> price >>> of VS 2008 Professional (presumably with a free upgrade to 2010) was >>> something like $1500 USD. >>> >>> Now there are new VS 2010 >>> prices.http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Microsoft-Offers-Dea... >>> >>> Basically if you have VS 2005/2008 Standard, you can get VS2010 Standard >>> for >>> $299. And even if you are totally new to VS, you can get VS2010 >>> Professional for $799 and upgrade for $549. And Professional now comes >>> with >>> MSDN Essentials. So the prices are much cheaper than we had been led to >>> believe. >> >>Comments about the product in this NG havent been that glorifying >>though. I > Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP] > email: newcomer(a)flounder.com > Web: http://www.flounder.com > MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm
From: Cmplx80 on 4 Mar 2010 18:08 Ajay Kalra wrote: > On Mar 4, 1:45 pm, "David Ching" <d...(a)remove-this.dcsoft.com> wrote: >> A while ago, we were bemoaning the loss of VS 2010 Standard, and the price >> of VS 2008 Professional (presumably with a free upgrade to 2010) was >> something like $1500 USD. >> >> Now there are new VS 2010 prices.http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Microsoft-Offers-Dea... >> >> Basically if you have VS 2005/2008 Standard, you can get VS2010 Standard for >> $299. And even if you are totally new to VS, you can get VS2010 >> Professional for $799 and upgrade for $549. And Professional now comes with >> MSDN Essentials. So the prices are much cheaper than we had been led to >> believe. > > Comments about the product in this NG havent been that glorifying > though. I > > -- > Ajay > > > Biggest (VS2010 RC) complaint here is that the documentation/help system has been rendered 100% useless by moving it from an integrated function to a goofy and magnanimously dysfunctional browser-based scheme. No index, no filters (that I can find), new browser page tabs becoming lost in a sea of other browser page tabs, missing pieces, dot, dot, dot. How does this happen? Who is responsible for letting stuff like this hit the shipping dock? Frank
From: Ajay Kalra on 4 Mar 2010 20:12 On Mar 4, 5:18 pm, "David Ching" <d...(a)remove-this.dcsoft.com> wrote: > "Ajay Kalra" <ajayka...(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:77f4bb3e-edb3-4aed-ab82-b379b992413b(a)j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... > > > My point was people who care about low price point would first look at > > the express edition. > > Sure, but Express version doesn't do MFC. Sure.... But are you saying MFC has changed since VC6 ;-). -- Ajay
From: David Ching on 4 Mar 2010 20:42
"Ajay Kalra" <ajaykalra(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:0b1d19ab-8465-42e5-a7ab-275f34484a6b(a)z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com... > Sure.... But are you saying MFC has changed since VC6 ;-). > MFC not so much, but the IDE has been modernized. Even if you prefer VC6, using such an old product is no longer better. And Express has never supported MFC... there has never been a free version of VS that supports MFC. Cheapest for MFC has always been Standard edition. This announcement means that is continued. -- David |