qooxdoo trouble
in [JavaScript]
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From: Kenneth Tilton on 1 Aug 2010 13:38 David Mark wrote: > On Jul 31, 6:00 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> David Mark wrote: >>> On Jul 31, 2:36 pm, Nisse Engstr�m <news.NOSPAM.id...(a)luden.se> wrote: >>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:13:13 -0400, Kenneth Tilton wrote: >>>>> http://teamalgebra.com/ >>>> Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard... >>> That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app. >>>> When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab], >>> That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic >>> navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with >>> cookies, local storage, etc.) >>>> I get >>>> "G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut). >>>> And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site. >>> Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to >>> track them down. >> Let's see what the browser/engine is first. > > I already told you. > >> Team qooxdoo seems to have >> run up the white flag on Opera key events. > > They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team > you've got there. :( > >> My investors (me) are >> prepared to lose that market. > > Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very > popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it > as an IE alternative. Yeah, it's going through the roof: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp 2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work. kt -- http://www.stuckonalgebra.com "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." Macworld
From: David Mark on 1 Aug 2010 18:32 On Aug 1, 1:10 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > David Mark wrote: > > On Jul 31, 6:00 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Do you read this group or just post? > > Just post. This NG is not really up to snuff, and deals mostly with > stuff I let qooxdoo worry about. Up to snuff? You are letting qooxdoo "worry" about something that they are clearly unable to deal with when the answers are right under your nose here. > > > I've long since tamed the > > keyboard (and yes, that includes Opera). > > Cool, I'll check out your code. Mind the copyright. Only the My Library add-on is licensed. But as usual, I'm sure large tracts of it will eventually make its way into projects like qooxdoo, Dojo, jQuery, etc. Why people want to wait years for such transformations is beyond me. > > > But I don't write add-ons > > for qooxdoo. > > You might recall qooxdoo allows one to embed raw Html/js. You really are hypnotized. Qooxdoo "allows" you to use HTML/JS in a browser in the same way that jQuery "allows" QSA and event delegation. > > >> I waded thru more than a little qooxdoo code to determine they had left > >> the model property off the RadioGroupBox widget. > > > That's too bad. > > >> Doing so was not the > >> end of the world. Sorry. k > > > Nothing is the end of world, is it? But one problem after another > > indicates you would have been better off without qooxdoo. > > No, "one problem after another" was jQuery, Dojo, and YUI and the code > was impossible to follow. The Qooxdoo project is obviously of a similarly incompetent nature. > qooxdoo actually started off with a problem > (over busy datagrid (does My Library have a datagrid?)) which was > insanely easy to fix and has only occasionally had issues while bringing > a rather hefty desktop application to the Web: As for "datagrid", read this thread:- http://groups.google.com/group/my-library-general-discussion/browse_thread/thread/4636cecd90eab742 Search for "grid" if you have a short attention span.
From: David Mark on 1 Aug 2010 18:50 On Aug 1, 1:26 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > David Mark wrote: > > On Jul 31, 6:16 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Opera is the most broken browser concerning keyboard events. > > > What does that mean? It can't handle typing "g=mc2=="? I assure you > > it can. > > The question is what key event application is made available to the > client in the general case. No, the question is how the qooxdoo developers could be so ignorant about such a basic and critical interface. > I'll check it out now that I have the thing > somewhat gracefully coping whether or not TeX fonts are installed. ISTM you spend a lot of time checking things out that were supposed to be handled automatically by the qooxdoo scripts. What does that tell you? > > > > > You can't do round-trips on every key event. As you've been told > > repeatedly, it's pure lunacy (and doomed to fail). > > ...and working: > > http://teamalgebra.com/ As many have told you, it's working about as well as could be expected (abominably). Just because it appears to be snappy to you doesn't mean it is to the rest of the world. ;) > > Go figure. By the way, I have not even made an effort yet to optimize > the round-trips, the editor is so responsive. See above. > > You seem unable to absorb the fact that this is an Algebra tutoring > platform, not a type-touching trainer. But I am happy to remind you as > needed. You seem unable to absorb anything. Your 9 round-the-clock "professional engineers" can't even handle keyboard input in Opera; instead, they gave up years ago. What does that tell you? > > >> As a corollary, you seem unaware that I am Mr. NIH, not as a bug, but as > >> a feature. > > > Translation? > > Generally you are right: libraries are more trouble than they are worth. > qooxdoo and jsMath are clear exceptions. Only in your head. > > > > >> And I am using qooxdoo and jsMath ecstatically over how fast > >> I have brought a wysiwyg math editor to the web. > > > You are hopelessly deluded. > > >> Is your brain nothing but one great honking anti-library neuron? > > > We've been over that. Even a child could understand that eschewing > > obviously bad libraries does not indicate any sort of general "anti- > > library" sentiment. > > I guess not since you are pushing a competitor library /and/ selling > your services as a qooxdoo developer. I am not "pushing" a competitor. Who competes for freebie downloads? I am pushing the fact that I've got the only successful game in town when it comes to comprehensive GP libraries. It's not even a horse race. And I am not a qooxdoo developer, nor have I ever mentioned anything about such services.
From: RobG on 1 Aug 2010 18:55 On Aug 2, 3:38 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > David Mark wrote: > > On Jul 31, 6:00 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> David Mark wrote: > >>> On Jul 31, 2:36 pm, Nisse Engström <news.NOSPAM.id...(a)luden.se> wrote: > >>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:13:13 -0400, Kenneth Tilton wrote: > >>>>> http://teamalgebra.com/ > >>>> Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard... > >>> That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app. > >>>> When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab], > >>> That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic > >>> navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with > >>> cookies, local storage, etc.) > >>>> I get > >>>> "G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut). > >>>> And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site. > >>> Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to > >>> track them down. > >> Let's see what the browser/engine is first. > > > I already told you. > > >> Team qooxdoo seems to have > >> run up the white flag on Opera key events. > > > They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team > > you've got there. :( > > >> My investors (me) are > >> prepared to lose that market. > > > Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very > > popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it > > as an IE alternative. > > Yeah, it's going through the roof: > > http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp > > 2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my > beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work. The comment was about *Europe*, where Opera has about 5%[1] use. Given that is nearly the same number of people who are left-handed, do you propose telling them to go away too? Your site is still a "train wreck" in Safari, many buttons don't appear, the tying tutorial is hit and miss. And it still takes around 30 seconds to load over ADSL 2 that can achieve 3Mbs. Your back-end coding for the algebra part might be great, but the UI sucks. 1. <URL: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-eu-monthly-200908-201007 > -- Rob
From: David Mark on 1 Aug 2010 18:58
On Aug 1, 1:38 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > David Mark wrote: > > On Jul 31, 6:00 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> David Mark wrote: > >>> On Jul 31, 2:36 pm, Nisse Engström <news.NOSPAM.id...(a)luden.se> wrote: > >>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:13:13 -0400, Kenneth Tilton wrote: > >>>>> http://teamalgebra.com/ > >>>> Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard... > >>> That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app. > >>>> When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab], > >>> That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic > >>> navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with > >>> cookies, local storage, etc.) > >>>> I get > >>>> "G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut). > >>>> And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site. > >>> Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to > >>> track them down. > >> Let's see what the browser/engine is first. > > > I already told you. > > >> Team qooxdoo seems to have > >> run up the white flag on Opera key events. > > > They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team > > you've got there. :( > > >> My investors (me) are > >> prepared to lose that market. > > > Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very > > popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it > > as an IE alternative. > > Yeah, it's going through the roof: > > http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp We've been over that a million times. Such stats rarely reflect reality for reasons that should be obvious. UA strings are often indistinguishable from each other. Users and software can change the UA string. And ever heard of proxy servers? Yes, they've been known to supply their own UA string from all users. > > 2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Call it 2%. You mentioned you were once a math teacher. What is 2% of browsers in use? This isn't high school, Kenny; 98% is not an A+. And it's not like qooxdoo comes anywhere near 98% anyway. Hard to pin it down due to the browser sniffing, but you can bet that any current build's score will decline over time as browsers change and new browsers are introduced. I'm sure you subscribe to the notion that you will just download a new qooxdoo every few months, but we've been over that too. For one, you've been patching the thing, so upgrading will be a problem. For two, qooxdoo will add new features that you don't necessarily need and that might well screw up the features you do need. And last but not least, these browser sniffing scripts invariably break the last batch of browsers when they twiddle with their "logic" to "support" newer ones. And the point is that you could have easily avoided all of this by just listening. I told you a long ways back that qooxdoo was a non- starter. > Be still my > beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work. > Don't believe everything you see on the tube. ;) |