qooxdoo trouble
in [JavaScript]
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From: Kenneth Tilton on 1 Aug 2010 20:16 David Mark wrote: > On Aug 1, 1:10 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > As for "datagrid", read this thread:- > > http://groups.google.com/group/my-library-general-discussion/browse_thread/thread/4636cecd90eab742 > > Search for "grid" if you have a short attention span. Got it: > And, there will never be a grid control. Think about commercial > desktop software and operating systems. How much of it uses grids? > Spreadsheets and database managers (e.g. MS Access) are about it. Most business applications provide an interface to a database. My first app was a datamining app and DB browser, I used nothing but grids and treeviews. I understand, tho: it's a lot of work. qooxdoo's has a kazillion features, including resizable and relocatable columns, and even a little widget that lets the user hide/show columns. Getting a bit frilly there, but my client happened also to ask for it. kt -- http://www.stuckonalgebra.com "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." Macworld
From: Kenneth Tilton on 1 Aug 2010 20:35 RobG wrote: > On Aug 2, 3:38 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> David Mark wrote: >>> On Jul 31, 6:00 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> David Mark wrote: >>>>> On Jul 31, 2:36 pm, Nisse Engstr�m <news.NOSPAM.id...(a)luden.se> wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:13:13 -0400, Kenneth Tilton wrote: >>>>>>> http://teamalgebra.com/ >>>>>> Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard... >>>>> That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app. >>>>>> When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab], >>>>> That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic >>>>> navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with >>>>> cookies, local storage, etc.) >>>>>> I get >>>>>> "G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut). >>>>>> And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site. >>>>> Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to >>>>> track them down. >>>> Let's see what the browser/engine is first. >>> I already told you. >>>> Team qooxdoo seems to have >>>> run up the white flag on Opera key events. >>> They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team >>> you've got there. :( >>>> My investors (me) are >>>> prepared to lose that market. >>> Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very >>> popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it >>> as an IE alternative. >> Yeah, it's going through the roof: >> >> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp >> >> 2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my >> beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work. > > The comment was about *Europe*, where Opera has about 5%[1] use. 5%? If they need help with Algebra, they can fire up FireFox. > Given > that is nearly the same number of people who are left-handed, do you > propose telling them to go away too? Love the logic, Rob! Down with the 5%ers! > > Your site is still a "train wreck" in Safari, many buttons don't > appear, the tying tutorial is hit and miss. Works for me in Safari on Windows* and the Mac. And iCab on the Mac and Chrome on Ubuntu. kt * Except two of the math keypad characters are out of place. That's a jsMath issue I have addressed to date only with hard-coded kludges. Looks like I need another. -- http://www.stuckonalgebra.com "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." Macworld
From: David Mark on 1 Aug 2010 20:47 On Aug 1, 8:16 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > David Mark wrote: > > On Aug 1, 1:10 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > As for "datagrid", read this thread:- > > >http://groups.google.com/group/my-library-general-discussion/browse_t... > > > Search for "grid" if you have a short attention span. > > Got it: I don't think you do. > > > And, there will never be a grid control. Think about commercial > > desktop software and operating systems. How much of it uses grids? > > Spreadsheets and database managers (e.g. MS Access) are about it. > > Most business applications provide an interface to a database. My first > app was a datamining app and DB browser, I used nothing but grids and > treeviews. Most business applications use some sort of a database. That doesn't mean they need to look like a database manager (e.g. MS Access). Those sorts of quickie grid apps are typically the result of inexperienced and/or unimaginative designers. I spent a decade writing DB front-ends and never once used a grid. ;) > > I understand, tho: it's a lot of work. qooxdoo's has a kazillion > features, including resizable and relocatable columns, and even a little > widget that lets the user hide/show columns. You don't understand anything. That's all piffle. And I did a massive amount of work on Dojo's execrable grid. They are all the same basic BS. > Getting a bit frilly there, > but my client happened also to ask for it. What client?
From: Kenneth Tilton on 1 Aug 2010 20:51 David Mark wrote: > On Aug 1, 1:38 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> David Mark wrote: >>> On Jul 31, 6:00 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> David Mark wrote: >>>>> On Jul 31, 2:36 pm, Nisse Engstr�m <news.NOSPAM.id...(a)luden.se> wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:13:13 -0400, Kenneth Tilton wrote: >>>>>>> http://teamalgebra.com/ >>>>>> Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard... >>>>> That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app. >>>>>> When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab], >>>>> That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic >>>>> navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with >>>>> cookies, local storage, etc.) >>>>>> I get >>>>>> "G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut). >>>>>> And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site. >>>>> Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to >>>>> track them down. >>>> Let's see what the browser/engine is first. >>> I already told you. >>>> Team qooxdoo seems to have >>>> run up the white flag on Opera key events. >>> They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team >>> you've got there. :( >>>> My investors (me) are >>>> prepared to lose that market. >>> Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very >>> popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it >>> as an IE alternative. >> Yeah, it's going through the roof: >> >> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp > > We've been over that a million times. Such stats rarely reflect > reality for reasons that should be obvious. UA strings are often > indistinguishable from each other. Users and software can change the > UA string. And ever heard of proxy servers? Yes, they've been known > to supply their own UA string from all users. > >> 2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. > > Call it 2%. You mentioned you were once a math teacher. What is 2% > of browsers in use? This isn't high school, Kenny; 98% is not an A+. No, this is business school and when one is reaching 98% of the market the cost of reaching another 2% (who is free to use FireFox if they need help with Algebra and if they won't do that they prolly aren't buyers anyway) prolly cannot be justified, not as long as their are features to add that would be more effective at growing share. > And it's not like qooxdoo comes anywhere near 98% anyway. Hard to pin > it down due to the browser sniffing, but you can bet that any current > build's score will decline over time as browsers change and new > browsers are introduced. > > I'm sure you subscribe to the notion that you will just download a new > qooxdoo every few months, but we've been over that too. For one, > you've been patching the thing,... Once, which they added to qooxdoo about an hour after I did cuz it was a no-brainer. > so upgrading will be a problem. For > two, qooxdoo will add new features that you don't necessarily need and > that might well screw up the features you do need. And last but not > least, these browser sniffing scripts invariably break the last batch > of browsers when they twiddle with their "logic" to "support" newer > ones. Thanks for the happy reminder that I am not doing a desktop app and dealing with Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows 7 any more with a port to the Mac an open item. Whew! > > And the point is that you could have easily avoided all of this by > just listening. I told you a long ways back that qooxdoo was a non- > starter. IIRC, all you came up with was some panel not scrolling when you stress-tested it by shrinking it beyond reason. And it did not scroll because I did not add one line of code (since added): (vpage ()(:label "Typing Lessons") <-- makes a tab in a tab control (scroller (:add '(:flex 1)) <-- wraps it in a scroller (math-paper-examples self))) btw, this thread is supposed to be about qooxlisp and now it is: qooxdoo developers using raw JS write a helluva a lot more code than that, and it is all boilerplate. Part of the win here is the fact that I created an engine to automate the assembly of qooxdoo ui hierarchies, but another win is the legendary Lisp macro. I keep giving qooxdoo the credit for bringing this thing to fruition so quickly, but qooxlisp gets as much credit. kt -- http://www.stuckonalgebra.com "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." Macworld
From: David Mark on 1 Aug 2010 20:54
On Aug 1, 8:35 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > RobG wrote: > > On Aug 2, 3:38 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> David Mark wrote: > >>> On Jul 31, 6:00 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> David Mark wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 31, 2:36 pm, Nisse Engström <news.NOSPAM.id...(a)luden.se> wrote: > >>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:13:13 -0400, Kenneth Tilton wrote: > >>>>>>> http://teamalgebra.com/ > >>>>>> Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard... > >>>>> That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app. > >>>>>> When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab], > >>>>> That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic > >>>>> navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with > >>>>> cookies, local storage, etc.) > >>>>>> I get > >>>>>> "G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut). > >>>>>> And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site. > >>>>> Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to > >>>>> track them down. > >>>> Let's see what the browser/engine is first. > >>> I already told you. > >>>> Team qooxdoo seems to have > >>>> run up the white flag on Opera key events. > >>> They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team > >>> you've got there. :( > >>>> My investors (me) are > >>>> prepared to lose that market. > >>> Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very > >>> popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it > >>> as an IE alternative. > >> Yeah, it's going through the roof: > > >> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp > > >> 2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my > >> beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work. > > > The comment was about *Europe*, where Opera has about 5%[1] use. > > 5%? If they need help with Algebra, they can fire up FireFox. So you see 95% as a solid A? Why not just admit that you hitched your wagon to a broken down nag? > > > Given > > that is nearly the same number of people who are left-handed, do you > > propose telling them to go away too? > > Love the logic, Rob! Down with the 5%ers! But you didn't get the comparison. The basic gist is that 5% is a significant percentage of the population. > > > > > Your site is still a "train wreck" in Safari, many buttons don't > > appear, the tying tutorial is hit and miss. > > Works for me in Safari on Windows* and the Mac. And iCab on the Mac and > Chrome on Ubuntu. You are falling into the trap of assuming that everyone has the identical setup. And you didn't even ask (or specify) the versions of those browsers. As with most aspiring Web app developers, you are in way over your head (and sinking fast). |