Alternatives to Cakewalk TTS-1
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From: Sue Morton on 15 Apr 2007 18:28 I did see your reference to the Yamaha softsynth, but when someone abbreviates, I'm not sure they mean the same thing :-) To be able to see the names for the instruments in VSC, you need to select a bank first. The '---' means there is no bank select going on. The VSC and many other softsynths including the TTS-1 have different 'banks' -- collections of instruments -- not necessarily all have a nylon guitar for example, and patch 24 in a different bank might mean a flute. GM/GS standard defines Bank 0 and patches 0-127 (or 1-128 in some implementations) to be specific instrument patches you can count on, such as an acoustic piano at patch 0 (or 1). If a synth is NOT GM/GS standard the equivalent piano could be in bank 14132 patch 55! Stay within Sonar (for now) and don't use the Yamaha Softsynth, just so everything will play back together and you can get a feel for how to route midi tracks to different synths or different outs of the same synth or combinations of the above -- all within Sonar. Once that is comfortable for you, of course feel free to explore how to hook in an external synth, but in my experience Windows software synths like the Yamaha are not reliable in this regard no matter what you do. It will drift over time, play right one time and not the next, and so on. There are LOTS of soundfonts (most are free) around the net, you can put together quite a nice bank of sounds using a soundfont-player synth such as sfz that Nil already mentioned. As examaple, I have several songs that each have their own custom soundfont bank containing only the instruments needed by the song. Sounds like you're making progress, good luck. -- Sue Morton "Cap'n Ron" <Cap'nRon(a)NOSPAM88.com> wrote in message news:KdwUh.7569$vD4.7145(a)bigfe9... > Sorry, I thought you caught the first part of this query. > > I'll quickly summarize: Sonar 2.0Xl with Yamaha S-YXG 50 softsynth as the > midi device output. All midi is format 1 with all tracks playing through > the S-YXG50. > > I just wanted to try some different synths on the guitar tracks that > already exist, because that is the only area that sounds weak. > > The midi track properties show, for example, "nylon guitar" as the patch, > bank is "---" and Out is "1-yamaha xg wdm softsynthesizer". This is > before adding the Virtual Sound Canvas or any other synth. > After adding the VSC, I can now see a VSC window that shows all 16 tracks > (with piano 1 as the instruments on all 16 tracks). I then change the > original midi track's "Out" to the VSC. The patch then changes to "24" > rather than saying "nylon guitar". I can change this number to some other > number/patch, but I no longer see the actual instrument's name, just > numbers to pick from. Also, on the VSC window, I can pick a new patch for > that track and I see the actual instrument names. The problem is that the > original midi track doesn't update the patch name from "24" to whatever I > have picked. That is what I meant by a conflict. The midi info (notes) > is going through the VSC and playing the new instrument, but it seems like > I should be saving this new patch info somewhere permanent. > > The other issue was the latency problem. How to do adjust for that in > this situation? It would seem that the Yamaha softsynth is faster than > the VSC, so should I slow it down or try to somehow "speed up" the VSC? > > Thanks for bearing with me, I hope I have cleared up the question. > > > > > > > > "Sue Morton" <867-5309(a)domain.invalid> wrote in message > news:O3vUh.550$iZ5.277(a)newssvr22.news.prodigy.net... >> Answers inline... >> -- >> Sue Morton >> >> "Cap'n Ron" <Cap'nRon(a)NOSPAM88.com> wrote in message >> news:mpsUh.3290$Wm.2443(a)bignews5.bellsouth.net... >>>A lot of great info, but a couple of questions still: >>> >>> 1. Midi track - output to VSC for example, should the patch(instrument) >>> selected be "none" and the instrument selected on the VSC the one I >>> really want? Seems that Nylon gtr. on the midi conflicts with Hawaiian >>> gtr. on the synth. >> >> There is no patch in one and patch in the other. Your midi track, if >> 'none' on the track view in Sonar, probably has an embedded patch >> instruction inside the MIDI stream along with the notes etc. >> >> You want the MIDI track to send the correct information to the synth, >> whether from within the MIDI stream (harder) or from the track properties >> (easier, if only 1 instrument there). Keep in mind, the TTS-1 is *not* >> GM/GS midi standard, so you may be hearing a different sound from it for >> the instrument you *think* you are asking for, because it's not in the >> same place on the TTS-1. You need to send the patch AND bank that >> correctly selects the sound you want, from the synth. >> >>> >>> 2. I have midi tracks in the song, so I don't insert new ones as you >>> said. However, don't I have to insert the audio track when I insert the >>> DXI synth? >> >> Yes if you don't already have one, that is the audio track the synth >> lives on. If you already have one, it can be 'converted' to be a synth >> audio track. Usually it is better to let the 'wizard' insert one for >> you. >> >> >>> 3. Syncing - It seems that when I do get this to work, the Yamaha synth >>> is playing all the other tracks while the VSC is playing the guitar >>> track. However, the music played back doesn't sound in time. The guitar >>> track is slightly behind I believe. Is there a possible Audio Engine >>> setting I have wrong? >> >> After having moved on to #4, I think this is not sync but latency. Sonar >> will have some latency to the sound rendered by the TTS-1 or other >> Sonar-driven synth. Sending the MIDI stream outside Sonar will not >> involve Sonar's latency, but whatever exists outside Sonar. They will >> never match easily. Stay inside Sonar to be able to control this for >> now. You can learn how to mix and match later... >> >>> 4. Do I have an issue with the Yamaha set as my Global output device >>> for all midi in the Tools section? Does the VSC override this global >>> setting for the guitar track only? >> >> By 'Yamaha' do you mean the Windows softsynth? This is external to >> Sonar. You can route your signal exclusively out of Sonar, out Sonar >> *and* to a Sonar-driven synth like the TTS-1, or only to a Sonar-driven >> synth. I'm not sure what you're referring to as a 'default' -- I am not >> aware of any 'default' but then I always populate all my MIDI and synth >> parameters. >> >>> >>> Okay, that's enough questions for now. Thanks for taking the time to >>> make such a lengthy response. You help is appreciated very much. >>> >>> Cap'n Ron >> >> > >
From: Cap'n Ron on 15 Apr 2007 19:05 Great news! I adjusted the mixing latency down to 50msec and both softsynths are playing very nicely together. I will assign a bank as you said and explore all the sounds available. I will also check out soundfonts. Thanks again, today has been a big step forward in midi for me. Cap'n Ron "Sue Morton" <867-5309(a)domain.invalid> wrote in message news:yGxUh.15181$JZ3.10266(a)newssvr13.news.prodigy.net... >I did see your reference to the Yamaha softsynth, but when someone >abbreviates, I'm not sure they mean the same thing :-) > > To be able to see the names for the instruments in VSC, you need to select > a bank first. The '---' means there is no bank select going on. The VSC > and many other softsynths including the TTS-1 have different 'banks' -- > collections of instruments -- not necessarily all have a nylon guitar for > example, and patch 24 in a different bank might mean a flute. GM/GS > standard defines Bank 0 and patches 0-127 (or 1-128 in some > implementations) to be specific instrument patches you can count on, such > as an acoustic piano at patch 0 (or 1). If a synth is NOT GM/GS standard > the equivalent piano could be in bank 14132 patch 55! > > Stay within Sonar (for now) and don't use the Yamaha Softsynth, just so > everything will play back together and you can get a feel for how to route > midi tracks to different synths or different outs of the same synth or > combinations of the above -- all within Sonar. Once that is comfortable > for you, of course feel free to explore how to hook in an external synth, > but in my experience Windows software synths like the Yamaha are not > reliable in this regard no matter what you do. It will drift over time, > play right one time and not the next, and so on. > > There are LOTS of soundfonts (most are free) around the net, you can put > together quite a nice bank of sounds using a soundfont-player synth such > as sfz that Nil already mentioned. As examaple, I have several songs that > each have their own custom soundfont bank containing only the instruments > needed by the song. > > Sounds like you're making progress, good luck. > -- > Sue Morton > > "Cap'n Ron" <Cap'nRon(a)NOSPAM88.com> wrote in message > news:KdwUh.7569$vD4.7145(a)bigfe9... >> Sorry, I thought you caught the first part of this query. >> >> I'll quickly summarize: Sonar 2.0Xl with Yamaha S-YXG 50 softsynth as >> the midi device output. All midi is format 1 with all tracks playing >> through the S-YXG50. >> >> I just wanted to try some different synths on the guitar tracks that >> already exist, because that is the only area that sounds weak. >> >> The midi track properties show, for example, "nylon guitar" as the patch, >> bank is "---" and Out is "1-yamaha xg wdm softsynthesizer". This is >> before adding the Virtual Sound Canvas or any other synth. >> After adding the VSC, I can now see a VSC window that shows all 16 tracks >> (with piano 1 as the instruments on all 16 tracks). I then change the >> original midi track's "Out" to the VSC. The patch then changes to "24" >> rather than saying "nylon guitar". I can change this number to some >> other number/patch, but I no longer see the actual instrument's name, >> just numbers to pick from. Also, on the VSC window, I can pick a new >> patch for that track and I see the actual instrument names. The problem >> is that the original midi track doesn't update the patch name from "24" >> to whatever I have picked. That is what I meant by a conflict. The midi >> info (notes) is going through the VSC and playing the new instrument, but >> it seems like I should be saving this new patch info somewhere permanent. >> >> The other issue was the latency problem. How to do adjust for that in >> this situation? It would seem that the Yamaha softsynth is faster than >> the VSC, so should I slow it down or try to somehow "speed up" the VSC? >> >> Thanks for bearing with me, I hope I have cleared up the question. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "Sue Morton" <867-5309(a)domain.invalid> wrote in message >> news:O3vUh.550$iZ5.277(a)newssvr22.news.prodigy.net... >>> Answers inline... >>> -- >>> Sue Morton >>> >>> "Cap'n Ron" <Cap'nRon(a)NOSPAM88.com> wrote in message >>> news:mpsUh.3290$Wm.2443(a)bignews5.bellsouth.net... >>>>A lot of great info, but a couple of questions still: >>>> >>>> 1. Midi track - output to VSC for example, should the >>>> patch(instrument) selected be "none" and the instrument selected on the >>>> VSC the one I really want? Seems that Nylon gtr. on the midi conflicts >>>> with Hawaiian gtr. on the synth. >>> >>> There is no patch in one and patch in the other. Your midi track, if >>> 'none' on the track view in Sonar, probably has an embedded patch >>> instruction inside the MIDI stream along with the notes etc. >>> >>> You want the MIDI track to send the correct information to the synth, >>> whether from within the MIDI stream (harder) or from the track >>> properties (easier, if only 1 instrument there). Keep in mind, the >>> TTS-1 is *not* GM/GS midi standard, so you may be hearing a different >>> sound from it for the instrument you *think* you are asking for, because >>> it's not in the same place on the TTS-1. You need to send the patch AND >>> bank that correctly selects the sound you want, from the synth. >>> >>>> >>>> 2. I have midi tracks in the song, so I don't insert new ones as you >>>> said. However, don't I have to insert the audio track when I insert the >>>> DXI synth? >>> >>> Yes if you don't already have one, that is the audio track the synth >>> lives on. If you already have one, it can be 'converted' to be a synth >>> audio track. Usually it is better to let the 'wizard' insert one for >>> you. >>> >>> >>>> 3. Syncing - It seems that when I do get this to work, the Yamaha >>>> synth is playing all the other tracks while the VSC is playing the >>>> guitar track. However, the music played back doesn't sound in time. >>>> The guitar track is slightly behind I believe. Is there a possible >>>> Audio Engine setting I have wrong? >>> >>> After having moved on to #4, I think this is not sync but latency. >>> Sonar will have some latency to the sound rendered by the TTS-1 or other >>> Sonar-driven synth. Sending the MIDI stream outside Sonar will not >>> involve Sonar's latency, but whatever exists outside Sonar. They will >>> never match easily. Stay inside Sonar to be able to control this for >>> now. You can learn how to mix and match later... >>> >>>> 4. Do I have an issue with the Yamaha set as my Global output device >>>> for all midi in the Tools section? Does the VSC override this global >>>> setting for the guitar track only? >>> >>> By 'Yamaha' do you mean the Windows softsynth? This is external to >>> Sonar. You can route your signal exclusively out of Sonar, out Sonar >>> *and* to a Sonar-driven synth like the TTS-1, or only to a Sonar-driven >>> synth. I'm not sure what you're referring to as a 'default' -- I am not >>> aware of any 'default' but then I always populate all my MIDI and synth >>> parameters. >>> >>>> >>>> Okay, that's enough questions for now. Thanks for taking the time to >>>> make such a lengthy response. You help is appreciated very much. >>>> >>>> Cap'n Ron >>> >>> >> >> > >
From: kitekrazy on 16 Apr 2007 17:56 Cap'n Ron wrote: > The Yamaha S-YX50 is a standalone softsynth that I have all tracks output > to. It is no longer sold by Yamaha. It did not come with any version of > Sonar/Cakewalk that I know of, but overall it sounds much better to me than > the synths that did come with Sonar 2.0 (except for those guitar parts). > > I believe with your help and Sue's, we have determined that there is a > latency issue when I apply another softsynth to a project. > It was designed to be a midi player. I assume in your midi out settings the Yamaha driver is your default midi out and also in your operating system. How did you get this to work on XP to begin with? > I will work on solutions for that, and I am also going to start researching > guitar soundfonts as you suggested. I too play guitar along with my midi > files, but I mostly play rhythym, so I need that lead guitar in the mix. > > Thanks for your help and suggestions, > > Cap'n Ron > Work on playing lead as well. It may take a while but it takes a lot of work to fool people with a guitar midi track.
From: Cap'n Ron on 16 Apr 2007 18:58 > It was designed to be a midi player. I assume in your midi out > settings the Yamaha driver is your default midi out and also in your > operating system. > > How did you get this to work on XP to begin with? > Yes it has a player, but I don't use it for anything. I play my midi files on Sonar or Van Basco (both set with the Yamaha as the output. I had no issues installing or running this with XP. I believe the upgraded version S-YXG100 may have been hard to use with XP. > Work on playing lead as well. It may take a while but it takes a lot of > work to fool people with a guitar midi track. I am working hard to play leads (mostly pentatonic minor scales), but right now, I don't fool anyone. Cap'n Ron
From: kitekrazy on 16 Apr 2007 21:09
Cap'n Ron wrote: >> It was designed to be a midi player. I assume in your midi out >> settings the Yamaha driver is your default midi out and also in your >> operating system. >> >> How did you get this to work on XP to begin with? >> > > Yes it has a player, but I don't use it for anything. I play my midi files > on Sonar or Van Basco (both set with the Yamaha as the output. I had no > issues installing or running this with XP. I believe the upgraded version > S-YXG100 may have been hard to use with XP. > > > Where did you get your SYXG50? It was a hit and miss on some XP systems. |