Finally, Death of the 3.5 inch floppy disk
in [Computers]
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From: Andrew Smallshaw on 6 May 2010 11:24 On 2010-05-05, Stuart Longland <redhatter(a)gentoo.org> wrote: > On Apr 27, 9:07?pm, John Tserkezis ><j...(a)techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote: >> >> ?No idea about Vista, but have installed Win7 several times so far, and >> yes, your only option is F6 to look at drive A:. > > Good grief, and here I was thinking Microsoft _finally_ got around to > fixing that. (I mean, cripes... at least look at a flaming CD > fellas?!) That can create problems in the truly general case. Think about it: you are loading drivers for an HBA and want to get them from a CD-ROM, potentially attached to that very same HBA... > I think USB could be difficult due to the fact that the initial loader > (in the case of Windows XP and earlier) started in DOS, loaded the > drivers into RAM then kickstarted the NT kernel from there, but one > would have thought that on modern systems, the BIOS should still at > least allow some access to USB drives. And clearly CD-ROMs are > accessible as it loads the rest of the drivers that way. That would seem the most natural PC way of doing things. I'm not really familiar with the Windows boot process anymore but there has to be _some_ point early on where the BIOS is still readily accessible and kernel modules can easily be loaded. Of course the most elegant way would be to place basic get-you-home drivers on the device itself. Sun managed this twenty years ago with their OpenPROM system, and that didn't even depend on the CPU since they were written in architecture-independent Forth. However that probably requires the kind of centralised planning and authoritative "this is the way it is going to be done" assertion that is difficult to enforce for commodity x86 hardware. The only time I can see you doing it is with a new bus standard: if e.g. PCIe had demanded it manufacturers would have little wriggle room. -- Andrew Smallshaw andrews(a)sdf.lonestar.org
From: Dombo on 6 May 2010 15:39 Andrew Smallshaw schreef: > On 2010-05-05, Stuart Longland <redhatter(a)gentoo.org> wrote: >> On Apr 27, 9:07?pm, John Tserkezis >> <j...(a)techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote: >>> ?No idea about Vista, but have installed Win7 several times so far, and >>> yes, your only option is F6 to look at drive A:. >> Good grief, and here I was thinking Microsoft _finally_ got around to >> fixing that. (I mean, cripes... at least look at a flaming CD >> fellas?!) > > That can create problems in the truly general case. Think about > it: you are loading drivers for an HBA and want to get them from > a CD-ROM, potentially attached to that very same HBA... > >> I think USB could be difficult due to the fact that the initial loader >> (in the case of Windows XP and earlier) started in DOS, loaded the >> drivers into RAM then kickstarted the NT kernel from there, but one >> would have thought that on modern systems, the BIOS should still at >> least allow some access to USB drives. And clearly CD-ROMs are >> accessible as it loads the rest of the drivers that way. > > That would seem the most natural PC way of doing things. I'm not > really familiar with the Windows boot process anymore but there > has to be _some_ point early on where the BIOS is still readily > accessible and kernel modules can easily be loaded. > > Of course the most elegant way would be to place basic get-you-home > drivers on the device itself. That was originally the intention with the IBM PC, e.g. the video card has its own Flash or (EPROM in the old days). Unfortunately it works in real mode only, and standardization for the software interfaces appears to have stopped around 1988. The elderly among us probably still remember Ralf Browns interrupt list.
From: Meindert Sprang on 7 May 2010 03:31 "Dombo" <dombo(a)disposable.invalid> wrote in message news:4be31ae3$0$30719$5fc3050(a)news.tiscali.nl... > ... The elderly among us probably still > remember Ralf Browns interrupt list. I still have it on my server. The windows version (help file) even. But resent the word "elderly" :-) Meindert
From: SG1 on 7 May 2010 03:39 "Meindert Sprang" <ms(a)NOJUNKcustomORSPAMware.nl> wrote in message news:4be3c223$0$22942$e4fe514c(a)news.xs4all.nl... > "Dombo" <dombo(a)disposable.invalid> wrote in message > news:4be31ae3$0$30719$5fc3050(a)news.tiscali.nl... >> ... The elderly among us probably still >> remember Ralf Browns interrupt list. > > I still have it on my server. The windows version (help file) even. But > resent the word "elderly" :-) > > Meindert OK geriatric > >
From: L.A.T. on 7 May 2010 04:21
"SG1" <lostitall(a)the.races> wrote in message news:PsPEn.67$TL5.32(a)newsfe24.iad... > > "Meindert Sprang" <ms(a)NOJUNKcustomORSPAMware.nl> wrote in message > news:4be3c223$0$22942$e4fe514c(a)news.xs4all.nl... >> "Dombo" <dombo(a)disposable.invalid> wrote in message >> news:4be31ae3$0$30719$5fc3050(a)news.tiscali.nl... >>> ... The elderly among us probably still >>> remember Ralf Browns interrupt list. >> >> I still have it on my server. The windows version (help file) even. But >> resent the word "elderly" :-) >> >> Meindert > > OK geriatric > Legacy |