From: Rod Speed on
Unruh <unruh-spam(a)physics.ubc.ca> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> writes
>> Yousuf Khan <bbbl67(a)yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Richard Steiner <rsteiner(a)visi.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>> In the days of Windows 95, very few systems could boot from CD,

>>>>>> Thats overstating it, quite a few could.

>>>>> In 1995-1996, bootable CD support in the BIOS was quite rare.

>>>> That particular Pavillion can tho and THATS what matters.

>>> But how specifically did that particular Pavillion do it?

>> Just the usual way that became universal.

>>> That also matters. Was there a boot-CD standard available at that time,

>> Yes.

> As far as I know the boot standard was simply the floppy boot
> standard. Ie, the cdrom was/is just treated as if it were a floppy
> drive and the first sectors of the disk read off and jumped to.

Its a little more complicated than that, most obviously with the
driver thats needed to boot a CD, but thats the general idea.

> All this required was that the bios be able
> to read raw sectors from the device.

Its more complicated than that with what it
does with the raw sector it first reads tho.

>>> or were they some kind of proprietary boot loaders,
>>> only recognized by one particular manufacturer or model?

>> Nope, if that was what was done, the HP site would have said that.

> Why would they have said that?

Because there would have been plenty of questions
about why you couldnt boot a distribution CD.

> Noone else who has a proprietary way of doing things makes a
> big deal of the fact that they are incompatible with everyone else.

The HP FAQ system is a bit more than most bother with.


From: Rod Speed on
John B <jbngspam(a)yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> bbbl67 <yjkhan(a)gmail.com> wrote

>>> I just upgraded my brother's computer from Win XP to
>>> Ubuntu 5.10. It was an unbelievable success! It surprised
>>> even me how smoothly it went -- didn't need to go into the
>>> command-line even once. Linux has arrived, it seems.

>> Nope, now try accessing NTFS formatted partitions on that.

> Hmm, ntfs read is easy as. Not sure if its out of the box but I think it is.

Fraid not with ubuntu 6.06

> I even managed to delete files from an ntfs partition then resize the partition down to
> a smaller size so I could make a new linux partition. That was using ntfsprogs however,
> not so easy as just mounting a ntfs partition in RO mode.

And not without the use of the command line that he was clearly claiming.

> And this was on ubuntu 5.10

>> Or even just FAT32 partitions.

> Read/write at will

Not without the use of the command line with ubuntu 6.06

That was ALL I meant, I was JUST commenting on that command line use.

Like I said, its obviously trivial, even knoppix manages
to do it without any need to use the command line.


From: John B on
Rod Speed wrote:
> John B <jbngspam(a)yahoo.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> bbbl67 <yjkhan(a)gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> I just upgraded my brother's computer from Win XP to
>>>> Ubuntu 5.10. It was an unbelievable success! It surprised
>>>> even me how smoothly it went -- didn't need to go into the
>>>> command-line even once. Linux has arrived, it seems.
>
>>> Nope, now try accessing NTFS formatted partitions on that.
>
>> Hmm, ntfs read is easy as. Not sure if its out of the box but I think it is.
>
> Fraid not with ubuntu 6.06
>
Yeah, when I think about it that would make sense with
canonical/ubuntu's stance on proprietary/edge case legal stuff such as
reverse engineered ntfs drivers.

>> I even managed to delete files from an ntfs partition then resize the partition down to
>> a smaller size so I could make a new linux partition. That was using ntfsprogs however,
>> not so easy as just mounting a ntfs partition in RO mode.
>
> And not without the use of the command line that he was clearly claiming.
>
Correct, command line is a must.

<...>

JB
From: Rod Speed on
John B <jbngspam(a)yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> John B <jbngspam(a)yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> bbbl67 <yjkhan(a)gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> I just upgraded my brother's computer from Win XP to
>>>>> Ubuntu 5.10. It was an unbelievable success! It surprised
>>>>> even me how smoothly it went -- didn't need to go into the
>>>>> command-line even once. Linux has arrived, it seems.

>>>> Nope, now try accessing NTFS formatted partitions on that.

>>> Hmm, ntfs read is easy as. Not sure if its out of the box but I think it is.

>> Fraid not with ubuntu 6.06

> Yeah, when I think about it that would make sense with
> canonical/ubuntu's stance on proprietary/edge case legal stuff such as reverse
> engineered ntfs drivers.

Clearly those who did knoppix dont see it that way.

And I bet ubuntu fixes it sometime too.

>>> I even managed to delete files from an ntfs partition then resize
>>> the partition down to a smaller size so I could make a new linux
>>> partition. That was using ntfsprogs however, not so easy as just
>>> mounting a ntfs partition in RO mode.

>> And not without the use of the command line that he was clearly claiming.

> Correct, command line is a must.

So Yousuf's original was clearly just plain wrong.


From: George Macdonald on
On 12 Jul 2006 22:32:29 GMT, Unruh <unruh-spam(a)physics.ubc.ca> wrote:

>"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> writes:
>
>>Yousuf Khan <bbbl67(a)yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Richard Steiner <rsteiner(a)visi.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>> In the days of Windows 95, very few systems could boot from CD,
>
>>>>>> Thats overstating it, quite a few could.
>
>>>>> In 1995-1996, bootable CD support in the BIOS was quite rare.
>
>>>> That particular Pavillion can tho and THATS what matters.
>
>>> But how specifically did that particular Pavillion do it?
>
>>Just the usual way that became universal.
>
>>> That also matters. Was there a boot-CD standard available at that time,
>
>>Yes.
>
>As far as I know the boot standard was simply the floppy boot standard.
>Ie, the cdrom was/is just treated as if it were a floppy drive and the
>first sectors of the disk read off and jumped to. All this required was
>that the bios be able to read raw sectors from the device.

There were/are two ways of booting under the El Torito standard - one was
floppy emulation, the other was more like a HDD emulation. It wasn't
uncommon in the early days for a BIOS to not handle one of them.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald
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