New usenet hierarchy proposal
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From: Schmidt on 6 May 2010 15:26 "Ulrich Korndoerfer" <ulrich_wants_nospam(a)prosource.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:OBNl5JS7KHA.980(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > seems to be that for all interested in further discussions, help etc. > on VB Classic themes a new Usenet hierarchy should be created. > > Now I am no expert here, but AFAIK we need: > > - a naming > - a primary host of the hierarchy > - an ok from usenet administration > ... I would second that... it's important IMO that we all agree about *one* central place "to move to", to prevent "disruption" of the community to several different "new homes". If we were satisfied with only a few (english) groups, we could just move to comp.lang.basic.visual.... and proceed there. But if we would like to keep up a language-based group- hierarchy (as Ulrich just proposed) - and which is IMO the right thing to do - also with regards (at this occassion) to a new, "well-recognized and non-interchangeable root-name" as: 'vbclassic' seems to be... followed by the language- (or country) identifier: vbclassic.en vbclassic.fr vbclassic.es vbclassic.it vbclassic.de etc... Then one way to establish that (with no larger efforts) would be an approach as desribed in the following lines... [Mailing-Lists + NNTP-reflection] We would only need to find "someone", who has access to a server which is not that limited with traffic-volume and which does allow the creation of a bunch of mail-accounts, to set up a simple mailing-list-scheme as e.g.: (sorry Karl, when I anticipate something here, which is not possible...<g> - it's just to give an example)... vbclassic.en.general(a)mvps.org vbclassic.en.database(a)mvps.org vbclassic.de.allgemein(a)mvps.org .... etc. This would require a well set-up spam filter on these mail-accounts - but after all, it's only mail-boxes which need to be created - and a server which is able to handle the traffic (which is not all that large per month - even when we count in all the other countries, since it's only text) Then, to be able to read and post to these Mailing-Lists from normal Newsreaders, we could ask providers of free MailingList- reflector-services as for example http://gmane.org/post.php Maybe in our special case - since the hierarchy (when respecting language-identifiers) would be quite large - we could ask, to be listed directly behind the gmane. root-entry (as for example was done for the lisp-language, which is located directly behind gmane as: gmane.lisp... - and not as such many other languages, which are located behind gmane.comp... as e.g. gmane.comp.python... I'd think, that it would worth it, to contact the Gmane-folks directly in our case per: http://gmane.org/contact.php (and of course after reading their FAQ... <bg>) So, if the 'vbclassic...' E-Mail-accounts hierarchy (whoever wants to provide that "basic-service" for the community) would be accepted by Gmane, then one would only need to add a server-account-entry 'news.gmane.org' into its news-reader - and everything would work as before (aside from new group- names, which basically start with 'vbclassic.'). I already attached news.gmane.org to my newsreader, to be able to read and post to the sqlite-, cairo- and wine-mailinglists over NNTP - and this works well and without delays for over two years now with the wine-list and for over a year with the sqlite-list and cairo-list. Aside from that, the Web-Interface of Gmane is also not bad - and currently ad-free (these guys seem to be idealists of some sort ;-) - nonetheless Gmane is already providing these free services since 2002 now: http://gmane.org/stats.php Just an idea... Olaf
From: Mike Williams on 6 May 2010 16:05 "Ulrich Korndoerfer" <ulrich_wants_nospam(a)prosource.de> wrote in message news:eBW845U7KHA.3880(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> Personally I'm against splitting a group for different countries. It >> will mean that Q's and R's are not available for everyone. If .de, >> why not .se, ..no, .fi, .fr, .es, .it, .nl, .pl..... > > > Those can be created too. For a start en and (naturally for me) > de would suffice :-) We could even have an English VB group, although I suppose that would be a bit pointless because Micro$oft never made an English version of VB and they still don't make an English version of Windows :-) Mike
From: C. Kevin Provance on 6 May 2010 16:57 "Schmidt" <sss(a)online.de> wrote in message news:exi$CKV7KHA.5936(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... : I would second that... it's important IMO that we all agree : about *one* central place "to move to", to prevent "disruption" : of the community to several different "new homes". : : If we were satisfied with only a few (english) groups, we : could just move to comp.lang.basic.visual.... and : proceed there. : : But if we would like to keep up a language-based group- : hierarchy (as Ulrich just proposed) - and which is IMO the right : thing to do - also with regards (at this occassion) to a new, : "well-recognized and non-interchangeable root-name" as: : 'vbclassic' seems to be... : : followed by the language- (or country) identifier: : vbclassic.en : vbclassic.fr : vbclassic.es : vbclassic.it : vbclassic.de : etc... : : Then one way to establish that (with no larger efforts) would : be an approach as desribed in the following lines... : : [Mailing-Lists + NNTP-reflection] : We would only need to find "someone", who has access to : a server which is not that limited with traffic-volume and : which does allow the creation of a bunch of mail-accounts, : to set up a simple mailing-list-scheme as e.g.: : (sorry Karl, when I anticipate something here, which is : not possible...<g> - it's just to give an example)... : : vbclassic.en.general(a)mvps.org : vbclassic.en.database(a)mvps.org : vbclassic.de.allgemein(a)mvps.org : ... etc. : : This would require a well set-up spam filter on these : mail-accounts - but after all, it's only mail-boxes which need : to be created - and a server which is able to handle the traffic : (which is not all that large per month - even when we count : in all the other countries, since it's only text) : : Then, to be able to read and post to these Mailing-Lists from : normal Newsreaders, we could ask providers of free MailingList- : reflector-services as for example http://gmane.org/post.php : : Maybe in our special case - since the hierarchy (when respecting : language-identifiers) would be quite large - we could ask, to : be listed directly behind the gmane. root-entry (as for example : was done for the lisp-language, which is located directly behind : gmane as: gmane.lisp... - and not as such many other languages, : which are located behind gmane.comp... as e.g. gmane.comp.python... : : I'd think, that it would worth it, to contact the Gmane-folks : directly in our case per: http://gmane.org/contact.php : (and of course after reading their FAQ... <bg>) : : So, if the 'vbclassic...' E-Mail-accounts hierarchy (whoever : wants to provide that "basic-service" for the community) : would be accepted by Gmane, then one would only need to : add a server-account-entry 'news.gmane.org' into its news-reader - : and everything would work as before (aside from new group- : names, which basically start with 'vbclassic.'). : : I already attached news.gmane.org to my newsreader, to be able : to read and post to the sqlite-, cairo- and wine-mailinglists : over NNTP - and this works well and without delays for : over two years now with the wine-list and for over a year with : the sqlite-list and cairo-list. : : Aside from that, the Web-Interface of Gmane is also not bad - : and currently ad-free (these guys seem to be idealists of some : sort ;-) - nonetheless Gmane is already providing these free : services since 2002 now: http://gmane.org/stats.php I have a server with 2500 available email accounts and unlimited bandwidth. I looked into the C News package, since it's a Linux OS, but don't have the technical ability to install and compile the damned thing. :(
From: Schmidt on 6 May 2010 19:08 "C. Kevin Provance" <*@*.*> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:uGsgG7V7KHA.2240(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > I have a server with 2500 available email accounts > and unlimited bandwidth. The approach would only require the creation+setup of about 2-5 EMail-Inboxes per language, all defined as: vbclassic.<lang-identifier>.SubTopicGroup Should we decide, to follow this approach, it would be a good idea, to post an information into the different language-groups soon, so that they can decide if they want to participate in such "centralized efforts" - and if yes, which SubTopic- groups they would need (respecting their current traffic somewhat). As to the "german-needs" - we perhaps could live well with only two groups: vbclassic.de.allgemein vbclassic.de.datenbank which would result in the efforts (for the given hoster of appropriate EMail-InBoxes) to create: vbclassic.de.allgemein(a)SomeHost.com vbclassic.de.datenbank(a)SomeHost.com Same procedure then for the probably 4-5 InBoxes - of the larger vbclassic.en.... namespace. > I looked into the C News package, since it's a Linux OS, > but don't have the technical ability to install and compile the > damned thing. :( That's not that much of a problem, since on your server you would be done with (basically) just the E-Mail-Box-creation - the rest would be, to make these Mailing-Lists known to free NNTP<->mailinglist-reflectors as the already mentioned gmane.org or nabble.com. These already have proper NewsServer-setups up and running - well-working WebFrontends too, as well as effective spam-suppression-mechanisms and long years of experience with that. And these providers (in case everyone is using further his NNTP-reader of choice) would have the main- part of the (then NNTP-Read-)traffic to handle. The "EMail-Inbox-based storage" on your Server would only accessed in the "syncing-cases" (e.g.: new message coming in per NNTP-client at gmane.org -> resulting in an Update on the matching Mail-Account on your Server). So, the traffic on those "mailinglist-provider-servers" is much lower than the traffic on e.g. gmane.org, which acts as a real NNTP-server too (aside from the additional archiving of the mailing-list-contents). So, its basically "just the lead-storage" one provides with the EMail-Inboxes - and if "Auto-Mail-forwarding" on these E-Mail-InBoxes is set up, then one could also ensure easy mirroring of the mailing-lists data to additional servers. But let Karl respond first (hope he's reading this thread) - speaking for myself, I would like it very much, when a wellknown site, with a focus and a history regarding "community aspects of vbclassic" would act as the *leading* mailing-list-server - and if we can get one or two additional servers (as yours), which have the capabilities too, to work as E-Mail-Mirrors for the "leading-list" - all the better. To test the NNTP-performance of gmane.org, you can do that already by simply adding news.gmane.org as a new server to your NewsReader - anonymous read-access should work instantly on all the groups it provides, without any "special authentication-settings". Olaf
From: Karl E. Peterson on 6 May 2010 19:19
Ulrich Korndoerfer wrote: > Hi to all, > > seems to be that for all interested in further discussions, help etc. on VB > Classic themes a new Usenet hierarchy should be created. > > Now I am no expert here, but AFAIK we need: > > - a naming > - a primary host of the hierarchy > - an ok from usenet administration > > Naming could be: > > vbclassic.en.misc > vbclassic.en.com > vbclassic.en.database etc > > and > > vbclassic.de.misc > vbclassic.de.com > vbclassic.de.datenbanken etc I know next to nothing about creating new groups, much less an entire hierarchy. So, this may be an ignorant question. Wouldn't it be easier, and perhaps make more sense, to hook into an existing hierarchy? Perhaps creating a comp.lang.classicvb.* node, or similar? -- ..NET: It's About Trust! http://vfred.mvps.org |