Rudd Government not up to speed on NBN
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From: Swampfox on 27 Jun 2010 21:20 Mr.T wrote: > "Swampfox" <noidea(a)whocares.com> wrote in message > news:4c248337$0$12922$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au... >>> Well the projected total cost divided by the adult population, >>> doesn't bode well for the income necessary to make it viable. >> >> Surely that's flawed. >> What about business, government departments, research establishments, >> hospitals etc. >> Many businesses, especially large ones, already pay a premium for >> fast and reliable communications and the possibilities would be >> endless with a fibre network, all business telephony could be >> handled for starters. > > So just a good case for the private enterprise Telco's to fund it > then, NOT the taxpayer. > And IF Telstra was still owned by the government we would have a > problem of course. They had already planned to put in fibre to the > home when practical, *before* it was even thought of being sold. That's a different matter, your projection, "total cost divided by the adult population" is nowhere near the mark. > > >> Just as fleet sales are vital for the motor industry business take >> up would be vital for the NBN. > > Bullshit, only a very small percentage of car models made are sold to > fleets, or in a number that has ANY effect on price. In 2006 88% of Ford Falcons and 81% of Holden Commodores were sold to fleet customers. http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=19729 Both locally built vehicles, you will notice that the Honda Civic had the lowest percentage of fleet sales of any vehicle but that fleet sales still accounted for 10% of total sales, a not insignificant number, take a glance at the next taxi you see. The Commodore was still (in '06) Australia's biggest selling car, solely on the back of fleet sales. Commercial vehicles of course would also have a very high percentage of fleet sales, so it's not bullshit at all actually. > > >>> As long >>> as some of that income is not from taxpayers who don't need or want >>> pay TV or fast internet, then fine. I'm still yet to see any figures >>> that would support that possibility. >>> Simply claiming you can't guess if it's going to be profitable is a >>> reason NOT to do it IMO, rather than take such a huge risk! >> >> What would be the worst case scenario though? >> It would be impossible for the entire $40 Bil to disappear into a >> black hole, the risk is probably manageable at the end of the day >> given the benefits. > > Well I certainly can't see much benefit for the $50B spent on the > stimulus package, except to a few businesses who made a killing of > course. (figuratively and literally!) > Same thing is likely for the NBN IMO, but hopefully not as literally. > > MrT. You don't think that an unemployment rate about half the OECD average represents good value for money?
From: Mr.T on 28 Jun 2010 01:27 "Swampfox" <noidea(a)whocares.com> wrote in message news:4c27f92b$0$17176$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au... >your projection, "total cost divided by the adult population" is nowhere near the mark. "Nowhere near" what mark? Still no reason given for why private taxpayers should subside business users. They already pay a lower rate of tax. > >> Just as fleet sales are vital for the motor industry business take > >> up would be vital for the NBN. > > > > Bullshit, only a very small percentage of car models made are sold to > > fleets, or in a number that has ANY effect on price. > > In 2006 88% of Ford Falcons and 81% of Holden Commodores were sold to fleet > customers. Yep, and about a 100 other models didn't. > http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=19729 > Both locally built vehicles, you will notice that the Honda Civic had the > lowest percentage of fleet sales of any vehicle but that fleet sales still > accounted for 10% of total sales, a not insignificant number, No actual list is given, but I can assume a huge number of car models are not covered beyond the Honda Civic. >take a glance at the next taxi you see. For what? Never seen a VW Golf taxi for example. > The Commodore was still (in '06) Australia's biggest selling car, solely on > the back of fleet sales. Big whoop. > Commercial vehicles of course would also have a very high percentage of > fleet sales, so it's not bullshit at all actually. Well not IF you were only reffering to commercial vehicles, Holdens and Falcons I guess. > > Well I certainly can't see much benefit for the $50B spent on the > > stimulus package, except to a few businesses who made a killing of > > course. (figuratively and literally!) > > Same thing is likely for the NBN IMO, but hopefully not as literally. > > You don't think that an unemployment rate about half the OECD average > represents good value for money? And your proof that WE would have had unemployment equal, or even close to OECD, WITHOUT the stimulus package is where exactly???? Frankly I would rather they used some of the money to increase unemployment benefits for those without a job, who got NOTHING at all. And before you ask, I've never received the dole/UB's in my life! I do however object to the increasing level of middle class welfare at the expense of the truly poor. Howard was just as bad or worse there of course. MrT.
From: Rod Speed on 28 Jun 2010 02:31 Mr.T wrote: > "Swampfox" <noidea(a)whocares.com> wrote in message > news:4c248337$0$12922$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au... >>> Well the projected total cost divided by the adult population, >>> doesn't bode well for the income necessary to make it viable. >> >> Surely that's flawed. >> What about business, government departments, research establishments, >> hospitals etc. >> Many businesses, especially large ones, already pay a premium for >> fast and reliable communications and the possibilities would be >> endless with a fibre network, all business telephony could be >> handled for starters. > > So just a good case for the private enterprise Telco's to fund it > then, NOT the taxpayer. > And IF Telstra was still owned by the government we would have a > problem of course. They had already planned to put in fibre to the > home when practical, *before* it was even thought of being sold. > > >> Just as fleet sales are vital for the motor industry business take >> up would be vital for the NBN. > > Bullshit, only a very small percentage of car models made are sold to > fleets, or in a number that has ANY effect on price. > > >>> As long >>> as some of that income is not from taxpayers who don't need or want >>> pay TV or fast internet, then fine. I'm still yet to see any figures >>> that would support that possibility. >>> Simply claiming you can't guess if it's going to be profitable is a >>> reason NOT to do it IMO, rather than take such a huge risk! >> >> What would be the worst case scenario though? >> It would be impossible for the entire $40 Bil to disappear into a >> black hole, the risk is probably manageable at the end of the day >> given the benefits. > > Well I certainly can't see much benefit for the $50B spent on the > stimulus package, except to a few businesses who made a killing of > course. (figuratively and literally!) > Same thing is likely for the NBN IMO, but hopefully not as literally. There is sure to be some killed by their own stupidity too.
From: Rod Speed on 28 Jun 2010 02:37 Swampfox wrote: > Mr.T wrote: >> "Swampfox" <noidea(a)whocares.com> wrote in message >> news:4c248337$0$12922$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au... >>>> Well the projected total cost divided by the adult population, >>>> doesn't bode well for the income necessary to make it viable. >>> >>> Surely that's flawed. >>> What about business, government departments, research >>> establishments, hospitals etc. >>> Many businesses, especially large ones, already pay a premium for >>> fast and reliable communications and the possibilities would be >>> endless with a fibre network, all business telephony could be >>> handled for starters. >> >> So just a good case for the private enterprise Telco's to fund it >> then, NOT the taxpayer. >> And IF Telstra was still owned by the government we would have a >> problem of course. They had already planned to put in fibre to the >> home when practical, *before* it was even thought of being sold. > > That's a different matter, your projection, "total cost divided by > the adult population" is nowhere near the mark. > >> >> >>> Just as fleet sales are vital for the motor industry business take >>> up would be vital for the NBN. >> >> Bullshit, only a very small percentage of car models made are sold to >> fleets, or in a number that has ANY effect on price. > > In 2006 88% of Ford Falcons and 81% of Holden Commodores were sold to fleet customers. Bullshit they were. > http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=19729 Just because some fool claims something doesnt make it gospel, stupid. > Both locally built vehicles, you will notice that the Honda Civic had > the lowest percentage of fleet sales of any vehicle but that fleet > sales still accounted for 10% of total sales, a not insignificant > number, take a glance at the next taxi you see. > The Commodore was still (in '06) Australia's biggest selling car, > solely on the back of fleet sales. Easy to claim. Pity that fool never substantiated that claim. > Commercial vehicles of course would also have a very high percentage of fleet sales, so it's not bullshit at all > actually. > >> >> >>>> As long >>>> as some of that income is not from taxpayers who don't need or want >>>> pay TV or fast internet, then fine. I'm still yet to see any >>>> figures that would support that possibility. >>>> Simply claiming you can't guess if it's going to be profitable is a >>>> reason NOT to do it IMO, rather than take such a huge risk! >>> >>> What would be the worst case scenario though? >>> It would be impossible for the entire $40 Bil to disappear into a >>> black hole, the risk is probably manageable at the end of the day >>> given the benefits. >> >> Well I certainly can't see much benefit for the $50B spent on the >> stimulus package, except to a few businesses who made a killing of >> course. (figuratively and literally!) >> Same thing is likely for the NBN IMO, but hopefully not as literally. >> >> MrT. > You don't think that an unemployment rate about half the OECD average represents good value for money? Nope, because we had that before the GFC too.
From: Swampfox on 28 Jun 2010 04:08
Mr.T wrote: > "Swampfox" <noidea(a)whocares.com> wrote in message > news:4c27f92b$0$17176$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au... >> your projection, "total cost divided by the adult population" is >> nowhere near the mark. > > "Nowhere near" what mark? Still no reason given for why private > taxpayers should subside business users. They already pay a lower > rate of tax. Who said anything about private taxpayers subsidising business users? It's ridiculous to talk customer numbers when assessing profitability of the NBN, as all ISP's to my knowledge charge for bandwidth used, not a fixed price per customer. Business will obviously use far more bandwidth than residential customers per connection so is potentially far more profitable than residential customers. I would have thought this to be self evident. > > >>>> Just as fleet sales are vital for the motor industry business take >>>> up would be vital for the NBN. >>> >>> Bullshit, only a very small percentage of car models made are sold >>> to fleets, or in a number that has ANY effect on price. >> >> In 2006 88% of Ford Falcons and 81% of Holden Commodores were sold >> to fleet customers. > > Yep, and about a 100 other models didn't. > > >> http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=19729 >> Both locally built vehicles, you will notice that the Honda Civic >> had the lowest percentage of fleet sales of any vehicle but that >> fleet sales still accounted for 10% of total sales, a not >> insignificant number, > > No actual list is given, but I can assume a huge number of car models > are not covered beyond the Honda Civic. Fleet sales of the top 3 selling cars in Australia, the Commodore, Falcon and Corolla were 81, 88 and 60% respectively of total sales in 2006, so your claim that "only a very small percentage of car models made are sold to fleets, or in a number that has ANY effect on price." is patently absurd > >> take a glance at the next taxi you see. > > For what? Never seen a VW Golf taxi for example. > > >> The Commodore was still (in '06) Australia's biggest selling car, >> solely on the back of fleet sales. > > Big whoop. > >> Commercial vehicles of course would also have a very high percentage >> of fleet sales, so it's not bullshit at all actually. > > Well not IF you were only reffering to commercial vehicles, Holdens > and Falcons I guess. > > >>> Well I certainly can't see much benefit for the $50B spent on the >>> stimulus package, except to a few businesses who made a killing of >>> course. (figuratively and literally!) >>> Same thing is likely for the NBN IMO, but hopefully not as >>> literally. > >> >> You don't think that an unemployment rate about half the OECD average >> represents good value for money? > > And your proof that WE would have had unemployment equal, or even > close to OECD, WITHOUT the stimulus package is where exactly???? As you know it can never be proven, which isn't to say that the stimulus spending wasn't effective. The RBA board seems to think that it was so take it up with them if you like.. > Frankly I would rather they used some of the money to increase > unemployment benefits for those without a job, who got NOTHING at all. > And before you ask, I've never received the dole/UB's in my life! I do > however object to the increasing level of middle class welfare at the > expense of the truly poor. Howard was just as bad or worse there of > course. On this we agree. > > MrT. |