From: Bill Graham on

"C J Campbell" <christophercampbellremovethis(a)> wrote in message
> On 2009-09-11 01:55:43 -0700, Rol_Lei Nut <Speleo_Karstlenscap(a)>
> said:
>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>> "SPAM.WATCH" <fart(a)> wrote in message
>>> news:h8b588$irb$1(a)
>>>> USA is both the third largest nation, and yet is still a third rate
>>>> nation.
>>> Easy to say by someone who has never been both here and overseas. I have
>>> been to most continents, and I can tell you that I am now living (Salem,
>>> Oregon) in one of the best places in the world. The weather is
>>> beautiful, trees everywhere, and our supers are overflowing with fresh
>>> fruits and veggies, and wonderfully fresh meats, too. My health care is
>>> top drawer all the way, too. I am one hour's drive from the Pacific
>>> ocean, and about an hour in the other direction to mountains and great
>>> skiing. I am an amateur musician and there are so many good bands in
>>> this area that I have trouble deciding which ones to participate in. I
>>> could play anything from classical to Dixieland every night of the week.
>>> I have been to Europe, Australia, and Japan and China, and there has
>>> been no place where the living is as nice as I have it right now. My
>>> only real fear is that the liberal socialists will trash it for my
>>> grandchildren. But I have lived top drawer all the way.
>> Your description of "paradise" could be of thousands of places around the
>> world. In the places you've been to, you obviously haven't had the time,
>> desire, open-mindedness or perspicacity to see their good sides.
> Personally, I have spent a lifetime traveling, whether in the military, on
> vacation, or working. I have a few favorite spots (Salem is one of them).
> I live on the Olympic Peninsula of Washington State. I am hard pressed to
> think of anyplace in the world I didn't like. It is just so beautiful.
> Okay, we do have pretty good health care, food, and many fantastic
> cultural opportunities right at home. We don't have signs in front of our
> hospitals that say "Summertime is circumcision time" like one I
> photographed in the Philippines (circumcision was being promoted as an HIV
> prevention remedy, unfortunately). And I will never forget the pharmacy
> that called itself the "Holy House of Drugs."
> Sure, there are ugly things in beautiful spots -- slums that would curl
> your hair, places where naked, starving children huddle on the bare
> concrete surrounded by discarded hypodermic needles, broken glass among
> unconscious, disease and drug-ridden adults. I do not photograph those
> places, not because I do not acknowledge they exist, but because there are
> others who do so much better at alerting the world to these problems. The
> fact is, I see misery, but I do not have the ability to photograph it. My
> subjects always end up looking happy.
> I haven't been to Albania yet. I once read that it was pretty ugly,
> covered with ruined old socialist-era pillboxes. But somehow I doubt that
> the ugly pillboxes really manage to spoil it that bad. Other photographers
> might be able to take those and make the pillboxes look the teeth of a
> ferocious monster jutting up from the landscape. I could never pull it
> off -- they would end up looking like fine art sculptures. My search for
> an ugly place continues, though. There must be one somewhere.
Yes. If you are a photographer, most places aren't, "ugly" in the
traditional sense. But there are sure a lot of places that I am glad I
didn't have to live. Not always for reasons of, "beauty".. Most were because
of other things....Like the food markets in Europe didn't hold a candle to
the ones we have here. There were very few fresh fruits and veggies, and
fresh meats in Germany, for example....Lots of good sausages, but not enough
fresh steak, pork, and lamb. I met several people who had never heard of an
artichoke, for example....

From: Bill Graham on

"Douglas Johnson" <post(a)> wrote in message
> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)> wrote:
>>.....Can I blame the liberals for it? After all, it is a socialist idea.
>>anyone get food simply by putting their feet on a supermarkets property?
>>so, then would you go for the idea today that food should be socialized?
>>about getting a room for the night by simply setting foot on a hotel's
> So you have a heart attack. The paramedics show up. Should they require
> proof
> of citizenship or ability to pay before starting CPR? Or before they
> transport
> you to the hospital? Should the hospital require it before they treat
> you?

In my world, yes, yes, yes. Everyone (all 300 million of us citizens) should
have a government ID card, and/or a chip implanted in us that identifies us
as US citizens in good standing, and if we are sick, then the chip should
get us the treatment we need. Today's technology is more than adequate to
accomplish this.

From: D. Peter Maus on
On 9/11/09 16:34 , Bill Graham wrote:
> Everyone (all 300 million of us citizens)
> should have a government ID card, and/or a chip implanted in us that
> identifies us as US citizens in good standing, and if we are sick, then
> the chip should get us the treatment we need. Today's technology is more
> than adequate to accomplish this.

Be careful what you wish for.

From: Bill Graham on

"David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)> wrote in message
> "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)> wrote in message
> news:P-qdnSpS1-lx8DTXnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d(a)
>> "David Ruether" <d_ruether(a)> wrote in message
>> news:h8b2q8$5ms$1(a)
>>> "Bob G" <mrbobjames(a)> wrote in message
>>> news:94a4b97f-52ef-4dbe-935b-5f0597e68566(a)
>>>>> What he said was a lie, the health care will be provided to all tax
>>>>> payers and illegals are covered under the tax law so will receive free
>>>>> health care. Unless it was added all of the bills that have passed did
>>>>> not exclude illegals.
>>>> I don't know. Have we so lost our humanity that we think illegals are
>>>> animals? It's pathetic to hear a President promise to deny health care
>>>> to some people in order to appease Republicans.
>>> Yes - and that health care would not be "free" in any case, as it now is
>>> for many who currently (and expensively for the rest of us) use
>>> emergency
>>> room facilities in lieu of having a regular (and far less expensive) GP.
>>> As a tax-payer and health-care payer, I would much prefer to cover a
>>> $100 GP visit than a $1000 ER visit for an "illegal" concealed inside my
>>> bills. And I would also prefer that a communicable disease or
>>> potentially
>>> very serious and expensive condition be caught early through good care.
>>> It is short-sighted to see this in "us vs. them" terms when universal
>>> health care, including preventive care, helps us all. Or, for those
>>> against
>>> single payer health care (which is what SS Medicare is - and most are
>>> VERY happy with that, and its administrative costs are a small fraction
>>> of those of private insurance), look at the statistics. In EVERY country
>>> that has a single-payer system of health care, the average life span is
>>> greater than ours(!), and the cost of the health care system is less
>>> than
>>> ours(!). Yet the "know-nothings" hide their heads in the sand and mutter
>>> idiotic things like, "socialism"...
>>> --DR
>> So you think that the only way to improve our health care system is to
>> socialize it? You are ready and willing to completely give up on any and
>> all ideas to have a decent privatized health care system here in the US?
>> Why not give real capitalism a chance? If you were an MD, would you
>> really want to work for the government? How about a law that makes
>> everybody have a health insurance policy, together with opening up the
>> insurance companies to cross state lines and sell their policies to
>> anyone who applies for one? A real free enterprise system, IOW.
> It is a pleasure to read an opposing post that is reasonable, and
> especially
> civil. I applaud your comments and manner, although I may not agree with
> your point of view. I take my health coverage from a "socialized" source,
> the
> single-payer government system with my Medicare plan, and this has proven
> far more efficient in terms of overhead, distribution of services, and
> quality of
> treatment compared with conditions that existed before Medicare and
> current
> market conditions for those unlucky enough not to yet have Medicare
> available.
> While a few "tweaks" may help with our current system, it is still so
> clearly
> evident that our highly-touted medical system (which is not available to
> all),
> costs both far more per person and it also results in a very noticeably
> shorter
> average life span than is the case in EVERY other industrialized nation
> that has
> that "boogeyman" of systems, "socialized medicine". Never mind that it
> really
> does work very well, and really doesn't remove any personal control or
> choices over anything. It is time to look honestly at all the options
> (including
> ones you suggest) and see what really does or doesn't work the best for
> covering the most people and supplying the best care at the most
> reasonable
> cost. The nonsense from the Right has obviously been intended to serve to
> prevent this honest discussion - and the stony "lumpishness" demonstrated
> by
> most of the Republicans during Obama's speech illustrates the likely
> outcome
> of all this. It will be the Democrats alone who pass (or not) any
> important
> advances in the area of improving our medical coverage in this country
> with
> worthwhile legislation.
> --DR
Well, I will agree that our present health care system has a lot that is
wrong with it. The drug companies are getting very rich with it, for one
thing, and I would like to see regulation that controls that. But as someone
who took care to provide myself with good health care for my entire working
life, I resent Obama's willingness to use my taxpayer money to give people
health care that never bothered to spend a dime on their own health. I think
that the insurance companies should be able to sell their insurance across
state lines, for example, so that I could choose from hundreds of policies,
instead of just a few. IOW, I think that free competition has been lacking
from the system. People should be able to organize into groups that have
nothing to do with their previous health conditions, and buy their health
insurance across the board, too. Everyone in a given town, for example, or
everyone who works in a filling station, or some such thing. And all
policies should be available to the people who buy them....for example, I
have a good policy, but I have never seen a copy of it....I was unable to
get a copy from Stanford University, for whom I worked for 30 years.....Why
does the insurance company have the right to not give me a copy of my

From: Matt Clara on
"Doug Jewell" <ask(a)> wrote in message
> Larry Thong wrote:
>> It seems the meaning and value of the word "apology" has been watered
>> down to now mean "I'm sorry I got caught for doing whatever I did but was
>> very happy doing it up and till the point I got caught." It's sad that
>> this practice is commonplace with business's, politicians, investment
>> brokers, religious figures, criminals alike.
>> Good ole boy Joe Wilson, a Republican, called out "you lie" during
>> Obama's speech and shortly apologizes after getting called out over it.
>> It's sad to see these juvenile actions taken by Wilson and the
>> Republicans when everyone knows Obama is very passionate and takes
>> seriously the problem of health care reform. He is the only President in
>> history that is actually doing something about removing the waste and
>> corruption in the health care system. Give Obama a round of applause!!!
> Don't you think it is kind of hypocritical that on the one hand Obama
> supports socialised health care so that the poor have access to
> life-saving medical procedures, and yet on the other hand he supports
> partial-birth abortions?

Not in the least.


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