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From: rendition on 23 Jan 2010 15:09 Chris H wrote: > In message <hjfd8f$pjv$2(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Brent <tetraethyll > eadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> writes >> On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >> >>>> Also, an 80 year old person cannot get a kidney or transplant. Heart >>>> transplant candidates are carefully screened. All of this is a form of >>>> rationing. >>> In the UK they would if they were fit enough for the operation and it >>> would improve their life. That said AFAIK all patients get screened for >>> operations as no one wants to do pointless operations. However these >>> decisions are taken on medical grounds. >> That's rationing of the pie. The customer doesn't decide, the government >> employee does. > > Not at all the medical staff decide on MEDICAL grounds. > >> They decide how the health care pie is going to be split >> up. They decide if the 80 year old is deserving of it or not. It's a >> fixed supply system. That's the mentality it runs under. > > That is the US mentality. Not the NHS mentality. > > All I have seen so far is the US does not trust it's own governments. > > Yer bloody well right mate! In essence that is the FOUNDATION of our nation, when one begins to trust in government at the expense the individual ruination is not far behind.
From: rendition on 23 Jan 2010 15:11 Peter wrote: > "Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message > news:DSDmiZPA0zWLFAn+(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk... >> In message <4b5b3875$0$31020$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com>, Peter >> <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> writes >>> "Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message news:GCVnG4MZJzWLFAGL@p >>> haedsys.demon.co.uk... >>>> >>>>> No one really believes that the medical treatment given to our poverty >>>>> level patients is the same as for those who can afford to pay. >>>> >>>> In the UK there is no difference. >>>> >>> >>> I have no direct means of verifying that. >> >> I can. I live here. > > So, you expect us to believe that private gets no better treatment? I > certainly do not believe that. Of course not. And this is why Canadian provinces are privatizing as well. >> >>> However, working on the assumption that the Brits have characteristics >>> of human nature, I suppose it would depend upon whether some doctors >>> get paid privately. >> >> There are both private and NHS doctors. Some do both. Having an NHS >> system does not preclude private medical systems. It is not a mutually >> exclusive choice. >> >> Everyone pays for the NHS in taxes. Everyone gets NHS treatment. Those >> who want to do something else (in addition) can do. >> >> It is no good saying I want to be private ONLY (and no pay the taxes for >> the NHS) and then one day suddenly find you are broke and have no >> issuance etc and no private medical care any more. As you will not have >> paid into the NHS system and then should not be treated under it. >> >>> Do you really believe that the Queen has to wait in her doctor's >>> waiting room? >> >> >> No. There is no difference to the NHS. However if you want to pay for >> private treatment that is your choice. The Queen will use private >> medical treatment simply because of her position. The same is true or >> other people who for business, security or other reasons want their >> medical treatment on their terms and not the NHS terms. >> >> > > > And many, including a former PM or yours, will use private for other > reasons. He even came here for treatment while he was in office. Out of > discretion I will not reveal his name, nor how I know about it. Interesting! (you already excluded Thatcher with the "he")
From: Brent on 23 Jan 2010 15:21 On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: > In message <hjfd8f$pjv$2(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Brent <tetraethyll > eadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> writes >>On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >> >>>>Also, an 80 year old person cannot get a kidney or transplant. Heart >>>>transplant candidates are carefully screened. All of this is a form of >>>>rationing. >> >>> In the UK they would if they were fit enough for the operation and it >>> would improve their life. That said AFAIK all patients get screened for >>> operations as no one wants to do pointless operations. However these >>> decisions are taken on medical grounds. >> >>That's rationing of the pie. The customer doesn't decide, the government >>employee does. > > Not at all the medical staff decide on MEDICAL grounds. I did not say what grounds the decision was made on, only who makes it. The government employees make it. Because government is political most of the decision making will be political. >>They decide how the health care pie is going to be split >>up. They decide if the 80 year old is deserving of it or not. It's a >>fixed supply system. That's the mentality it runs under. > That is the US mentality. Not the NHS mentality. That's the government mentality. > All I have seen so far is the US does not trust it's own governments. Government has killed more people than anything else in human history. Government is fundamentally a criminal enterprise. Government and a criminal gang with sufficent power are for all purposes the same thing.
From: Ray Fischer on 23 Jan 2010 15:30 tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >>According to an in depth discussion in another group The UK actually >>spends less per person on health care (including dental) in the UK than >>the USA spends per person. Also it covers EVERY person in the UK, not >>just 80% as per the USA. > >Where do you get your 80% figure? Everyone in the US is covered by >some sort of health care program. Nope. > It may be a private insurance >program, Medicare, Medicaid, or some other government program. Sorry, but there are about 30+ million people in the US with no coverage at all. -- Ray Fischer rfischer(a)sonic.net
From: rendition on 23 Jan 2010 15:34
Ray Fischer wrote: > tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >> Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> > >>> According to an in depth discussion in another group The UK actually >>> spends less per person on health care (including dental) in the UK than >>> the USA spends per person. Also it covers EVERY person in the UK, not >>> just 80% as per the USA. >> Where do you get your 80% figure? Everyone in the US is covered by >> some sort of health care program. > > Nope. See: emergency room. >> It may be a private insurance >> program, Medicare, Medicaid, or some other government program. > > Sorry, but there are about 30+ million people in the US with no > coverage at all. See; emergency room. |