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From: Brent on 24 Jan 2010 03:22 On 2010-01-24, Ray Fischer <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote: > Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>On 2010-01-23, Ray Fischer <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote: >>> Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >>>>> In message <hjfd8f$pjv$2(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Brent <tetraethyll >>>>> eadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> writes >>>>>>On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Also, an 80 year old person cannot get a kidney or transplant. Heart >>>>>>>>transplant candidates are carefully screened. All of this is a form of >>>>>>>>rationing. >>>>>> >>>>>>> In the UK they would if they were fit enough for the operation and it >>>>>>> would improve their life. That said AFAIK all patients get screened for >>>>>>> operations as no one wants to do pointless operations. However these >>>>>>> decisions are taken on medical grounds. >>>>>> >>>>>>That's rationing of the pie. The customer doesn't decide, the government >>>>>>employee does. >>>>> >>>>> Not at all the medical staff decide on MEDICAL grounds. >>>> >>>>I did not say what grounds the decision was made on, only who makes it. >>>>The government employees make it. Because government is political most >>>>of the decision making will be political. >>>> >>>>>>They decide how the health care pie is going to be split >>>>>>up. They decide if the 80 year old is deserving of it or not. It's a >>>>>>fixed supply system. That's the mentality it runs under. >>>> >>>>> That is the US mentality. Not the NHS mentality. >>>> >>>>That's the government mentality. >>>> >>>>> All I have seen so far is the US does not trust it's own governments. >>>> >>>>Government has killed more people than anything else in human history. >>>>Government is fundamentally a criminal enterprise. Government and a >>>>criminal gang with sufficent power are for all purposes the same thing. >>> >>> Government is us. By damning government you damn yourself. >> >>It is not 'us'. > > Of course it is. It is nothing more that people, paid by taxpayers, > to provide services to the people. Since when is stealing from the people a 'service' ? >> It hasn't been 'us' for a very very long time if it >>ever was. > Anarchist idiocy. What happens if a person stops paying federal income tax because he does not approve of the wars the federal government is waging? The result shows the true nature of the state.
From: Chris H on 24 Jan 2010 05:28 In message <4b5b56cd$0$30747$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com>, Peter <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> writes >"Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message news:DSDmiZPA0zWLFAn+@p >haedsys.demon.co.uk... >> In message <4b5b3875$0$31020$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com>, Peter >> <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> writes >>>"Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message news:GCVnG4MZJzWLFAGL@p >>>haedsys.demon.co.uk... >>>> >>>>>No one really believes that the medical treatment given to our poverty >>>>>level patients is the same as for those who can afford to pay. >>>> >>>> In the UK there is no difference. >>>> >>> >>>I have no direct means of verifying that. >> >> I can. I live here. > >So, you expect us to believe that private gets no better treatment? I >certainly do not believe that. Better medical treatment: no A private room, better facilities for privacy and to carry on business etc, your choice of food, better biscuits with the tea: yes. >And many, including a former PM or yours, will use private for other >reasons. He even came here for treatment while he was in office. Out >of discretion I will not reveal his name, nor how I know about it. Most of then have private medical care. No discretion needed as most times it is reported in the papers. No one bats an eyelid. With the NHS they tell you when they can see you as they are juggling many patients. They don't fit things in around your schedule With Private you can tell them when your schedule is free. For some people this is more important. The medical care is the same you just get a nicer room, your choice of food and tea and biscuits and when you want them. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: Chris H on 24 Jan 2010 05:29 In message <4b5b583c$1(a)news.x-privat.org>, rendition <ren(a)stimpy.org> writes >Peter wrote: >> And many, including a former PM or yours, will use private for >>other reasons. He even came here for treatment while he was in >>office. Out of discretion I will not reveal his name, nor how I know >>about it. > >Interesting! > >(you already excluded Thatcher with the "he") She did have private medical treatment in the US -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: Chris H on 24 Jan 2010 05:31 In message <4b5b7a92$0$1677$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net>, Ray Fischer <rfischer(a)sonic.net> writes >tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>>>> In the UK they would if they were fit enough for the operation and it >>>>>>> would improve their life. That said AFAIK all patients get screened for >>>>>>> operations as no one wants to do pointless operations. However these >>>>>>> decisions are taken on medical grounds. >>>>>> That's rationing of the pie. The customer doesn't decide, the government >>>>>> employee does. >>>>> Not at all the medical staff decide on MEDICAL grounds. >> >>If you have a bum knee, some doctor in the NHS will decide if you will >>get a replacement joint or not. > >And in the US it's the insurance company that decides. So the UK is a medical decision and the US is a commercial one. How does that make the US *MEDICAL* system better? -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: Chris H on 24 Jan 2010 05:32
In message <4b5b8377(a)news.x-privat.org>, rendition <ren(a)stimpy.org> writes >Ray Fischer wrote: >> tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> In the UK they would if they were fit enough for the operation and it >>>>>>>> would improve their life. That said AFAIK all patients get >>>>>>>>screened for >>>>>>>> operations as no one wants to do pointless operations. However these >>>>>>>> decisions are taken on medical grounds. >>>>>>> That's rationing of the pie. The customer doesn't decide, the government >>>>>>> employee does. >>>>>> Not at all the medical staff decide on MEDICAL grounds. >>> If you have a bum knee, some doctor in the NHS will decide if you will >>> get a replacement joint or not. >> And in the US it's the insurance company that decides. > >Or the emergency room. Where do you go with non emergency problems if you have no private insurance? -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |