From: rafe b on 8 Jan 2006 21:15
On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:35:40 GMT, "Nicholas O. Lindan" <see(a)sig.com>
>"Mark?" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote
>> With my
>> 1270, that little ink pad has no absorbing capacity left (and hasn't for
>> years) because it's soaking wet all the time. Interestingly, it remains
>> wet...NEVER drying--even after long periods on non-use. This means that
>> instead of "cleaning" the head, it simply wipes goo around and ONTO the
>> head. :) Perhaps this is partly what's helped my 1270 keep from clogging
>> over the years...because the head can't dry out/clog when it's parked in big
>> mess of wet goop! :)
>By George I think you've got it! I have this almost permanently clogged
>Epson on which I keep cleaning the head cleaning pad -- I've just been
>making it worse [though I can't see how it gets much worse]. I think
>I will splash on some anti-freeze [propylene glycol, TTTT] and
>see what happens...
Windex is the stuff you want.
From: Nicholas O. Lindan on 9 Jan 2006 05:16
"rafe b" <rafebATspeakeasy.net>
> On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:35:40 GMT, "Nicholas O. Lindan" <see(a)sig.com>
> > I have this almost permanently clogged Epson ...
> Windex is the stuff you want.
Tried it, tried every cleaning agent I can find. Near
as I can tell it's semi-permanently clogged up with something
in the innards of the print head.
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm
From: Arthur Entlich on 9 Jan 2006 13:47
I agree that being able to remove the saturated waste ink pad unit has
some value, in fact, I advocated for this design in the consumer models
as well, since they obviously often get used well beyond one "fill up".
I believe the pro models use a "chipped" waste ink unit, so you
basically have a similar situation as with the cartridges, you either
have to figure out a way to reset the chip, or buy a new unit from Epson.
As to the size of the waste ink pads, you may need them that large,
especially if you have to change black ink types in that model. As with
all the wider carriage models that use ink tube delivery, when you
change the black ink type, the system purges the ink out of the head,
damper and tube. That in itself would be horrible, if it only did that
for the black head, but, at least with the other wide carriage models,
and I assume as well the 4000 model, all the ink colors are purged at
once due to the one purge pump and ganged cleaning station. That's a
LOT of ink going down the drain, so they best have a good size waste ink
There is something horribly ironic about having to pay nearly the cost
of the printer (in the consumer models) or for a chipped and
non-reusable waste ink container on the larger pro models) for a part
that 1) is capturing all that wasted costly ink you bought, and 2) in
part a result of design issues in the head, capping and ink formulation
cause this need to begin with.
> rafe b wrote:
>>On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 07:43:42 -0800, "Mark?" <mjmorgan(lowest even
>>number here)@cox..net> wrote:
>>>Arthur Entlich wrote:
>>>>There is a certain irony that this business model is so well
>>>>"designed" that by Epson offering perhaps $10-$20 actual cost worth
>>>>of ink, they can make a person justify spending an additional $1000
>>>>or more on a
>>>It is worth every bit of that extra $1000 if you want ultra chrome,
>>>larger prints, serious longevity, and industrial-strength product
>>What it's "worth" has to be considered on
>>an individual basis.
> Of course...which is why I included the "if" on three items above.
>>Though the 4800 is "industrial strength," when
>>it's broken and out of warranty, you'll need
>>an industrial-strength wallet to get it fixed by
>>Epson, or you'll need to be very handy and
>>resourceful. Will you be ready to change out
>>dampers, heads, waste-ink pads or main-
>>boards when the time comes?
> I will be very surprised if any of that occurs during the years I'll use
> it...though of course...it does and could happen...
> BTW--The waste-ink "pad" on the 4000/4800 is a relatively HUGE "drawer" that
> pulls out easily (in about .5 seconds), and is designed to be replaced by
> the user. It is amazing how massive the thing is compared with the tiny
> little band-aid sized "pad" (as you appropriately called it) found in
> Epson's lesser printers. On the other hand... The little pad in my old
> 1270 has done the job for 6 years...even though it appears to be quite
> saturated. On the 4000/4800, the drawer is 9 inches long...4 inches
> wide...and 3 inches tall...and the drawer is entirely filled with felt-like
> absorbsion material. The menu system actually keeps track of how full the
> drawer is, and will warn you when you need to have another one handy. I've
> not filled one, but I've got a spare for when that need eventually comes.
> The 4000/4800 also has other user-serviceable parts...such as rollers,
> automatic paper cutting unit replacements, and other odds and ends. There
> is also extensive cleaning/priming functions built in in the case that a
> clog does occur. It is a very robust machine, built with the assumption
> that it will see heavy, prolonged, day-to-day use by people who sell it's
>>On the other hand, when my R1800 is busted
>>and out-of warranty (I give it 18-24 months, at
>>the outside) I have the option of just chucking
>>it in favor of whatever's the latest and greatest
>>at the moment. From Epson or anyone else.
> If it's like my 1270...and you take proper care of it...it will be working
> just fine for the next 6 years and beyond.
>>So buying a 4800 is like getting married.
>>Buying the 2400 or 1800 is a bit more like
>>"living together".... a more tentative
>>relationship, you might say.
> I can see how you could view it that way. To me, though, I've already got
> my money out of my 4000.
> I've made a great number of very large prints, especially panoramas. These
> would not only have been very expensive to have printed by others, but I
> would have lost control over my image. Ink costs compared with using teh
> relatively miniscule cartridges of smaller untra chrome printers has helped
> off-set the initial investment.
> My $1000 gets me the prints I simply can't produce with an 1800 or other
> smaller machines...so for me, it just made sense. And as you say...each
> must weigh their own needs/priorities.
From: Arthur Entlich on 9 Jan 2006 14:01
> That's the other aspect worth mentioning: Part of the reason for such a
> HUGE absorber is because when teh heads are cleaned/primed, that ink needs
> somewhere to be drawn TO so that it's no longer resting against the heads
> every time it parks there or is "cleaned." Without a huge section of
> absorbtion material, that ink quickly runs out of area to be drawn away TO.
> It's not as though it's just a dumping ground. It's sort of like using a
> large towel to clean up a large spill. That extra area of towel means the
> working surface of the towel maintains capacity to absorb...rather than just
> rub wetness around...because the mess has had somewhere to wick to. With my
> 1270, that little ink pad has no absorbing capacity left (and hasn't for
> years) because it's soaking wet all the time. Interestingly, it remains
> wet...NEVER drying--even after long periods on non-use. This means that
> instead of "cleaning" the head, it simply wipes goo around and ONTO the
> head. :) Perhaps this is partly what's helped my 1270 keep from clogging
> over the years...because the head can't dry out/clog when it's parked in big
> mess of wet goop! :)
Epson printers mainly use gravity and the purge pump to remove the ink,
not capillary action as you suggest. If you have totally filled up your
1270's waste ink pad by resetting the counter, then it may be swimming
in ink, but I know of many people who have removed the waste ink tube
from their printer and directed it to a bottle, so there is no "wicking"
occurring, and the system works just fine (and you get to see just how
much ink is wasted, too).
Your 1270 probably just needs a good cleaning of the cleaning station.
The purge pump may be all gummed up as well. Cleaning the cleaning
station and ink wiper can make a improvement in the cleaning cycles as well.
>>a whole storage room filled to the brim with old high-tech products.
> Me too. -I just threw a bunch of it away as I cleadned the garage
The problem is we pretty much all have a basement/closet/room filled
with lower high tech, and eventually it's all going to be tossed, but
where? Consumers, governments and manufacturers need to work together
of reducing and eliminating this spiral.
>>Anybody have a use for a dozen IBM Professional Graphics Systems?
> I still had my old 386 (older stuff was long gone)....because it still ran
> beautifully...with it's 4 MB or RAM (which was a lot at the time) and 80MB
> hard drive. Compared with my older computers...I bought that 386 feeling
> like it was an unbelievable piece of high tech mastery! Heck...it once was
> just that. :)
> I felt it might be somehow appropriate to play a soft rendition of Taps on a
> bugle as I lowered it into the recyclable bin. :( On the other hand...I
> now have that space in my garage where I can keep OTHER dinosaurs of the
> technology age...until they get their own funeral. :)
It saddens me to see so much "valuable" stuff get dumped. The items
were leading edge at one point, and people paid big money to be "on
top" with this stuff. The amount of money I have spent on storage media
and devices and memory, all completely obsolete now, is sickening... I
try not to think about it!
From: Arthur Entlich on 9 Jan 2006 14:45
The inks do use glycols as wetting agents and to slow down drying, to
try to lessen clogs. Which glycol they use, I am not sure, but I
suspect it's ethylene (which is poisonous, particularly to cats and dogs
even in relatively small amounts (well, they'd probably have to drink
the ink of a half a cartridge)... So, dispose of waste ink and empties
safely, away from pets or where animals can get at them. Glycols
small/taste sweet on their own, making them attractive to animals.
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
> "Mark?" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote
>>1270, that little ink pad has no absorbing capacity left (and hasn't for
>>years) because it's soaking wet all the time. Interestingly, it remains
>>wet...NEVER drying--even after long periods on non-use. This means that
>>instead of "cleaning" the head, it simply wipes goo around and ONTO the
>>head. :) Perhaps this is partly what's helped my 1270 keep from clogging
>>over the years...because the head can't dry out/clog when it's parked in big
>>mess of wet goop! :)
> By George I think you've got it! I have this almost permanently clogged
> Epson on which I keep cleaning the head cleaning pad -- I've just been
> making it worse [though I can't see how it gets much worse]. I think
> I will splash on some anti-freeze [propylene glycol, TTTT] and
> see what happens...
> Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
> Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
> To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
> Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm