Frontpage is Dead - Conversion to Expression (Web) Almost Impossible
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From: LD5SZRA on 5 May 2010 01:21 Microsoft in its wisdom wants to close down everything that produces no revenue to make its stockholders rich. From June this year, even this newsgroup may not exist if there is any truth in this report: <http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2010/05/04/microsoft-transitioning-from-newsgroups-to-forums.aspx> Or this report: <http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx> On the positive side, the competitors will have the opportunity to produce products that people like you would like to buy. IE8 won't be available to XP users so Mozilla and other browsers will have this wonderful opportunity to recover lost ground especially if they implement latest CSS and HTML 5. Microsoft has closed down many products as this list suggests: 1) Newsgroups shutting down; 2) IE8 not available to XP users (Mozilla and other browsers will continue on XP systems) 3) Outlook Express not being developed 4) Hotmail can't be read in Outlook unless you also install a Connector (new version just released on 20/04/2010) 5) If you criticize Microsoft products on forums, expect your messages to be deleted; 6) MVP status being scaled down (hooray - who is going to miss this? Not me for sure but Pig-Bear will) 7) Future products will only available online not on CD or DVDs 8) Microsoft Works version 10 not available on XP or Vista 9) Microsoft Office Accounting disbanded - the last version was 2009; 10) Frontpage brand disappeared. The list goes on and on! SB wrote: > > Microsoft in its wisdom abandoned Frontpage in 2007 along with all of > its users. The replacement Expression (Web) is fraught with bugs, and > has yet to become stable. It has not yet been fully developed. It also > presents a STEEP learning curve (actually many) for those who want to > convert exisitng Frontpage webs to Expression. Many elect not to do > so. > > MS has shot itslef in the foot by abandoning three important groups of > users - who are all paying customers for the product. > > These are: 1/ small business owners who have easily built their own > web site in Frontpage, 2/ web designers for those small business > owners, and 3/ those who have created large hobby websites. > > For them to convert to Expression will not be easy - using FP > Extensions are out, as are many other FP features. Web designers in > Expression will need to learn a plethora of new technologies CCS, > HTML, XTML, etc., etc. > > Additionally all Expression pages will need to end in .html rather > than the FP standard of .htm This will mean that ALL linls to previous > FP pages will fail not only from other websites but also w.r.t. > indexing for searches by Google etc. Effectively current FP web sites > will disappear from view until re-indexed. > > All this as well as coping with the idiosyncracies of Expression > itself which is itself not a fully developed product. > > This web page explains more: > > http://www.prorganize.com/help/pages/frontpage-conversion-help.html > > Enjoy!! -- THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. LD5SZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD5SZRA OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LD5SZRA OR ITS ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY. Copyright LD5SZRA 2010.
From: LD5SZRA on 5 May 2010 01:27 this should read: 2) IE9 (not IE8) not available to XP users (Mozilla and other browsers will continue on XP systems) LD5SZRA wrote: > > Microsoft in its wisdom wants to close down everything that > produces no revenue to make its stockholders rich. From June this > year, even this newsgroup may not exist if there is any truth in > this report: > > <http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2010/05/04/microsoft-transitioning-from-newsgroups-to-forums.aspx> > > Or this report: > > <http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx> > > On the positive side, the competitors will have the opportunity to > produce products that people like you would like to buy. IE8 won't > be available to XP users so Mozilla and other browsers will have > this wonderful opportunity to recover lost ground especially if > they implement latest CSS and HTML 5. > > Microsoft has closed down many products as this list suggests: > > 1) Newsgroups shutting down; > 2) IE8 not available to XP users (Mozilla and other browsers will > continue on XP systems) > 3) Outlook Express not being developed > 4) Hotmail can't be read in Outlook unless you also install a > Connector (new version just released on 20/04/2010) > 5) If you criticize Microsoft products on forums, expect your > messages to be deleted; > 6) MVP status being scaled down (hooray - who is going to miss > this? Not me for sure but Pig-Bear will) > 7) Future products will only available online not on CD or DVDs > 8) Microsoft Works version 10 not available on XP or Vista > 9) Microsoft Office Accounting disbanded - the last version was > 2009; > 10) Frontpage brand disappeared. > > The list goes on and on! > > SB wrote: > > > > Microsoft in its wisdom abandoned Frontpage in 2007 along with all of > > its users. The replacement Expression (Web) is fraught with bugs, and > > has yet to become stable. It has not yet been fully developed. It also > > presents a STEEP learning curve (actually many) for those who want to > > convert exisitng Frontpage webs to Expression. Many elect not to do > > so. > > > > MS has shot itslef in the foot by abandoning three important groups of > > users - who are all paying customers for the product. > > > > These are: 1/ small business owners who have easily built their own > > web site in Frontpage, 2/ web designers for those small business > > owners, and 3/ those who have created large hobby websites. > > > > For them to convert to Expression will not be easy - using FP > > Extensions are out, as are many other FP features. Web designers in > > Expression will need to learn a plethora of new technologies CCS, > > HTML, XTML, etc., etc. > > > > Additionally all Expression pages will need to end in .html rather > > than the FP standard of .htm This will mean that ALL linls to previous > > FP pages will fail not only from other websites but also w.r.t. > > indexing for searches by Google etc. Effectively current FP web sites > > will disappear from view until re-indexed. > > > > All this as well as coping with the idiosyncracies of Expression > > itself which is itself not a fully developed product. > > > > This web page explains more: > > > > http://www.prorganize.com/help/pages/frontpage-conversion-help.html > > > > Enjoy!! > > -- > THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY > KIND. LD5SZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR > IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND > FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD5SZRA > OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER > INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF > BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LD5SZRA OR ITS > ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH > DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR > LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL > DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY. > > Copyright LD5SZRA 2010. -- THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. LD5SZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD5SZRA OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LD5SZRA OR ITS ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY. Copyright LD5SZRA 2010.
From: Patricia Geary on 5 May 2010 07:11 But with these alternative editors (and including Dreamweaver) I fail to see how even the simplest functionalities such as keeping track of links works. With FP you could change the name or folder of a file and the changes would ripple through the whole site. I do not see that functionality with these other apps. It appears that the automoation that made FP easy to use has been replaced by hand editing and rebuilding on a massive scale. ============== As long as you have actually created a website and have maintain site using metadata files turned on which it is by default on a website, FP, EW, and SPD do the exact same thing. Rename a file from within the program and the links are adjusted, Move a file to another folder and the links ae adjusted.. This happens as long as you use relative file links. If you are using the full url to link to a site and then change a file name, then no the links are not adjusted. But this was also true in FP. Not sure where you are getting your info but it is WRONG. pst
From: Jeff Zeitlin on 5 May 2010 08:06 On Tue, 04 May 2010 09:08:54 -0400, Craig Schiller <cschiller1(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >It's swell that those who are more adept at coding have no trouble with >Expression Web, but for the more casual user, it is a major step >backward from FrontPage. The poster has valid points. Another point that the OP missed, which also adversely impacts conversion from FrontPage to Expression Web, is that even design-time FrontPage Components that do NOT require the server extensions (for example, the third-party MenuPlus Navigation Bar generator and Table of Contents Generator) are not supported, and useful alternatives are not provided. On top of that, Expression Web does not appear, even at version 3, to support the Navigation View (nor, therefore, any components/macros/etc.) that could rely on it for generating navigation) that FrontPage did, which made generating site navigation so easy. I have found Expression Web so deficient that I made a significant effort and managed to "hack" an installation of FrontPage 2003 onto my Windows 7/64 computer (not much of a hack; just needed to figure out how to NOT use the supplied SETUP.EXE - info available on request), just so that I could continue to maintain a website - done in FrontPage - that currently has over 1000 pages and has been operating for fifteen years. Over that time, through the use of templates and knowledge of HTML and CSS, I have "beaten FrontPage into submission" and get generally clean code, generally conformant to relevant standards. >Tom Willett wrote: > >>If you want to rant, rant to Microsoft. This is a peer-to-peer newsgroup. >>You simply haven't figured out how to use software properly, so you blame MS >>for your own shortfalls. >> >>"SB" <s_byers666(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message >>news:4311b9eb-baf0-4f05-9670-86fcfc2f9401(a)e2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... >>: Microsoft in its wisdom abandoned Frontpage in 2007 along with all of >>: its users. The replacement Expression (Web) is fraught with bugs, and >>: has yet to become stable. It has not yet been fully developed. It also >>: presents a STEEP learning curve (actually many) for those who want to >>: convert exisitng Frontpage webs to Expression. Many elect not to do >>: so. >>: >>: MS has shot itslef in the foot by abandoning three important groups of >>: users - who are all paying customers for the product. >>: >>: These are: 1/ small business owners who have easily built their own >>: web site in Frontpage, 2/ web designers for those small business >>: owners, and 3/ those who have created large hobby websites. >>: >>: For them to convert to Expression will not be easy - using FP >>: Extensions are out, as are many other FP features. Web designers in >>: Expression will need to learn a plethora of new technologies CCS, >>: HTML, XTML, etc., etc. >>: >>: Additionally all Expression pages will need to end in .html rather >>: than the FP standard of .htm This will mean that ALL linls to previous >>: FP pages will fail not only from other websites but also w.r.t. >>: indexing for searches by Google etc. Effectively current FP web sites >>: will disappear from view until re-indexed. >>: >>: All this as well as coping with the idiosyncracies of Expression >>: itself which is itself not a fully developed product. >>: >>: >>: >>: This web page explains more: >>: >>: http://www.prorganize.com/help/pages/frontpage-conversion-help.html >>: >>: Enjoy!! >> >> >> >> -- Jeff Zeitlin jzeitlin+jtas(a)spamcop.net
From: Patricia Geary on 5 May 2010 08:13
And now many are faced with converting FP sites to SD sites to EW sites? Or is it possible to go straight from FP to EW? ============ FP, SPD, and EW are TOOLS to design and edit sites. Depending on which features you have chosen to use, your site could be edited with any editor or even notepad if you so choose. I use all versions of ew, spd, and fp to help others. Which tool I use depends on what the individual I am helping is using. So you are not converting a site to a fp site or an ew site or an spd site, you should be converting, migrating or whatever you site to a standards compliant site so that as the Internet progresses and browsers progress, those who might want to view your site can do so with their choice of browser no matter what it is. SPD is more like EW 1. Learn to use the features in it and then move on to EW if you so choose. Or continue to use FP as you currently do. Only you can make the decision. There are many who will remain with FP and if it suits there needs, OK. There are also many of us out there who will continue to help those who need it and want it. Most of us are NOT employed by MS. We do it because we enjoy it. pat -- Pat Geary MVP Expression Web http://www.expresstion-web-tutorials.com/ http://www.expression-web-tips.com/ |