Microsoft ending newsgroup support
in [MFC]
|
From: David Ching on 11 May 2010 12:42 "Joseph M. Newcomer" <newcomer(a)flounder.com> wrote in message news:oodhu51656v4cr8qg19ru7sr4d6ou1ejp5(a)4ax.com... > I've been an MVP for 15 consecutive years, and it is kind of a cool thing. > I'd hate to > lose out on that because my contributions weren't counted because they > were "outside" the > Microsoft newsgroups. That would be really tacky. You know as well as I do contributions outside of the MS communities are counted as well. There are MVP's that don't write word one on Microsoft communities, and you have met them. -- David
From: Bo Persson on 11 May 2010 12:46 Hector Santos wrote: > Joseph M. Newcomer wrote: > >> See below... >> On Mon, 10 May 2010 17:54:41 -0400, Hector Santos >> <sant9442(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Joseph M. Newcomer wrote: >>> >>>>> I think that everyone will take his own strategy to arrangre >>>>> with the situation and think that therefore many excellelent >>>>> "communities" will break. >>>> *** >>>> Since the newsgroups live indpendent of the Microsoft servers, >>>> the issue is, for example, whether our particiation in >>>> unsponsored-by-Microsoft newsgroups counts towards our MVP >>>> status. **** >>> >>> Is that what you are really concern about? :) >> **** >> I've been an MVP for 15 consecutive years, and it is kind of a >> cool thing. I'd hate to lose out on that because my contributions >> weren't counted because they were "outside" the Microsoft >> newsgroups. That would be really tacky. **** > > > I hear you, but why would expect any organization to develop user > support "Team" outside their venues? > > They need to keep the groups as a recognized support avenue. > Why? Some of us, like Joe, have been doing this for a very long time. We feel like sharing our experience with others is a good idea, just like others helped us when we were newbies. As we do this on our spare time, and at our convenience, it is just tough for any organization that wants to count this as their support team! If they want to decide how, where and in what form they want the support, they will have to pay for it. I have worked as a support person earlier, and got a salary from the one that decided on the how and the when. When I do it for free, I decide. :-) I, for one, will stay here as long as the news feed is active. If it dies, it dies. Bo Persson
From: Hector Santos on 11 May 2010 14:17 Bo Persson wrote: >> I hear you, but why would expect any organization to develop user >> support "Team" outside their venues? >> >> They need to keep the groups as a recognized support avenue. > Why? > > Some of us, like Joe, have been doing this for a very long time. We > feel like sharing our experience with others is a good idea, just like > others helped us when we were newbies. > > As we do this on our spare time, and at our convenience, it is just > tough for any organization that wants to count this as their support > team! > > If they want to decide how, where and in what form they want the > support, they will have to pay for it. I have worked as a support > person earlier, and got a salary from the one that decided on the how > and the when. > > When I do it for free, I decide. :-) > > > I, for one, will stay here as long as the news feed is active. If it > dies, it dies. > Hi Bo, I think you misread me. Microsoft has basically made the "hard" decision to move people to the web-based MS Forums and provided a NNTP bridge to allow you to access it via NNTP. Outside the change of storage, the key difference is authentication. So if you wanted NNTP access, now yo have to login via the bridge. So, you, joe and others, as a long time MVP, and me, as long time non-MVP participant who gets more time on his hand, but doesn't want to be a MVP yet be active when I want to, can still participant via NNTP but on different storages. Personally, I think MS should keep the MS NTTP Server with a reduce set of newsgroups specifically to provide access to USER-SUPPORTED based contributors, including MVPs and other prolific participants. But I would of make the NNTP storage part of the MS Forums, single source it. But it was made separate 4-5 years ago and finally they decided they feel they are at a point where the MS forums will be the new storage and they will not use the old storage any more. Sites that mirror the old storage will only continue with it iff the microsoft.* newsgroup hierarchy remains. All indications are currently showing they want it removed from the usenet listing. The "Gatekeepers" are saying some of the microsoft.* can be absorbed by some of the existing comp.* groups. What is not being understood is this: Suppose the microsoft.public.vc.mfc group is rmgroup (removed) but absorbed by lets say comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools.mfc By absorbed, it means that PEOPLE are told that it where MFC support can be reached by the MVP people. The question is will the Joe's and Bo's subscribe to this comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools.mfc group? Probably not, maybe you will, but will Microsoft recognize your input there? I don't think so. -- HLS
From: David Ching on 11 May 2010 16:26 "Hector Santos" <sant9442(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:hsc70e$1kb5$1(a)news.ett.com.ua... > What is not being understood is this: > > Suppose the microsoft.public.vc.mfc group is rmgroup (removed) but > absorbed by lets say > > comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools.mfc > > By absorbed, it means that PEOPLE are told that it where MFC support can > be reached by the MVP people. > > The question is will the Joe's and Bo's subscribe to this > comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools.mfc group? > > Probably not, maybe you will, but will Microsoft recognize your input > there? > > I don't think so. > FWIW, I participated in c.o.m.p.t.m before this microsoft.public one came into existence. After that, I participated in both until it was evident the MS one was where all the traffic had gone. The MVP program is about recognizing contribution of knowledge of MS products in the "community" and that includes local communities and non-MS supported e-communities. If, after this newsgroup is closed, c.o.m.p.t.m once again experiences a revival in traffic, I will go there, as well as participate in the MS MFC forum via the bridge. It's not an either/or proposition. It's going where I'm needed and appreciated (by the users, not necessarily by MS). -- David
From: Hector Santos on 11 May 2010 17:56
David Ching wrote: > "Hector Santos" <sant9442(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > news:hsc70e$1kb5$1(a)news.ett.com.ua... >> What is not being understood is this: >> >> Suppose the microsoft.public.vc.mfc group is rmgroup (removed) but >> absorbed by lets say >> >> comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools.mfc >> >> By absorbed, it means that PEOPLE are told that it where MFC support >> can be reached by the MVP people. >> >> The question is will the Joe's and Bo's subscribe to this >> comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools.mfc group? >> >> Probably not, maybe you will, but will Microsoft recognize your input >> there? >> >> I don't think so. >> > > FWIW, I participated in c.o.m.p.t.m before this microsoft.public one > came into existence. After that, I participated in both until it was > evident the MS one was where all the traffic had gone. The MVP program > is about recognizing contribution of knowledge of MS products in the > "community" and that includes local communities and non-MS supported > e-communities. If, after this newsgroup is closed, c.o.m.p.t.m once > again experiences a revival in traffic, I will go there, as well as > participate in the MS MFC forum via the bridge. It's not an either/or > proposition. It's going where I'm needed and appreciated (by the users, > not necessarily by MS). Good point. I guess I would add that they were "recognized" communities or support avenues. e.g. for us, once upon a top, we had an array of documented support venues, GO XPRESS <--- the old CompuServe CIS) go group SILVER_XPRESS <--- Fidonet Echos network wide p2p) PLATINUM_XPRESS <--- Fidonet Echos (network wide p2p) PX_NET_XXXXXXX <--- Private Fidonet Echos (customer p2p) ALT.BBS.WILDCAT <--- the old usenet (pure junk today) Native Online <--- Dialup: 305-248-7815 Native Online <--- Socket: bbs.winserver.com EMAIL <--- free + premium direct email Mailing List <--- list server mailing list Web Based online <--- http://www.winserver.com Console Online <--- telnet bbs.winserver.com Voice Pay Support <--- 20 mins, yearly or packets of time. Today, we just have from Native Online (Socket) on down and it was done for the same reasons Microsoft is going thru today, but they had longer staying power of course. We rely on "Team Xpress" for user support, I choose them but customers help each other and we come when no one else answers questions. The $ premium channels is directly to my support team. We faced the same issues having too many different ways for support and we concentrated on a single storage with different connective methods so that helped but the differences do haunt you. Online provides more information where OFFLINE does not unless you offer a native GUI application. Live Mail has specific features only for its own servers. Not others. I guess we will have to wait to see how the MS newsgroups will play out when they are removed. IMV it will be a major disruption because there is no "mechanical absorption" but one of human contact - people will need to be made aware of where the "new hangup" is at and as you can see MS is not doing much in that area other than direct you to the MS FORUMS. i.e, they are not saying "go to other NNTP hosting sites." There is never a problem (well less of one) for savvy and technical people, it is the rest that will have a lost of contact. Finally, I think most people, MVP or otherwise do want to have a sense of Microsoft "Sponsored" support. The idea its 3rd party is mostly only acceptable to highly technical people such as yourself who understand these different avenues. Most people are not like that and i am speaking with my customer support hat on. Anyway, my opinion on the matter. -- HLS |