Microsoft ending newsgroup support
in [MFC]
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From: Hector Santos on 10 May 2010 10:08 I'm posting this via news.ett.com.ua which seems to be pretty fast. BobF wrote: > > news.eternal-september.org is my primary. I use aioe and telesweet as > backups - which I don't need very often ... > > > On 5/9/2010 5:43 PM, Hector Santos wrote: >> Test of news.aioe.org posting. >> >> HA! The server restricted the TOO many quoted lines.. cutting it down.... >>
From: BobF on 10 May 2010 10:37 I just configured it - not bad! (this is from there) On 5/10/2010 9:08 AM, Hector Santos wrote: > I'm posting this via news.ett.com.ua which seems to be pretty fast. > > BobF wrote: > >> >> news.eternal-september.org is my primary. I use aioe and telesweet as >> backups - which I don't need very often ... >> >> >> On 5/9/2010 5:43 PM, Hector Santos wrote: >>> Test of news.aioe.org posting. >>> >>> HA! The server restricted the TOO many quoted lines.. cutting it >>> down.... >>> >
From: Hector Santos on 10 May 2010 10:39 Uwe, This is a classic case of "Who Moved My Cheeze?" http://www.whomovedmycheese.com which deals with the aspect of change and adapting to change. The moral is that those who do not "adapt" will die. But the fundamental question of "Why the Cheese was Moved?" in the first place can always be questioned. So for Microsoft, "Why move the cheese?" is also a question for them and unfortunately, there will be many angles to it. From my perspective, that was important is that they had two separate avenues, i.e., they were not merged or single source: microsoft.public.* MS Forums They created the problem by not focusing on single sourcing it. There are other aspects: 1) Authentication 2) Quality of Mail There is a directly proportional relational between the two. The msnew.microsoft.com servers did not require authentication, so it was more open for abuse. On the other hand, news site that require authentication is weak too (any junk address can be used), so that doesn't stop quality of mail too, but there is some more restriction than being completely open. Then you have the corporate strategies of groupware (Which is Ray Ozzie's baby) and leveraging the BI (Business Intelligence) of the information collected. I will tell you from our own experiences, CHANGE IS HARD. Those who are been at this for a long time, are stuck between a rock in a hard place. Established companies do not have the luxury of change as new companies do where they can start fresh with current practice and methods, the fad of the day. There are many pluses and minuses. I think that Microsoft "SHOULD" reduce the microsoft.public.* to the more active ones and keep a lower overhead server around, and get/hire some real mail system experts to help them "Merge" it with the forums or basically make it single source so that it doesn't matter how you access. In my experience, this would have a lower impact. That said, there are times where you have to accept the fact the cheese was moved and adapt to it. But we won't really know, and probably won't see how amount of discontent occurs, until it finally happens. Its like the Classic Coke vs New Coke dilemma. The company spent millions developing what was considered a well conceived plan to get rid of the old coke and come out with a new coke, until it finally happen and the backlashing and PR problems began - the result, Classic Coke. Maybe we will see a cleaner and better Classic Microsoft NNTP server emerge from all this ....... or maybe not. :) -- HLS Uwe Kotyczka wrote: > The message, that MS wants to shut down it's news servers was > posted in many of the affected groups. The response was quite > different. In some groups there was no response at all, in > others there were discussions about the alternatives. But nowhere > I read about protest against MS' decision. > > I really would like to tell MS that this is really bad. But how? > Simply writung an email to MS? I'm sure I will not even get an > answer. Or, if so, it will be some computer generated blabla. > I have the feeling to face a giant helplessly. Even more if > I see no regular and no MVP to consider any protest. > > Looking at the discussed alternatives I see 3 general lines: > - Some seem to arrange with the forums. They discuss about the > NNTP bridge. > - Some think about going to other existing (or not yet existing) > groups somewhere in comp.* or <language>.comp.* > - some hope that the affected groups will be hosted by other > providers and hope the groups will not die. > I think that everyone will take his own strategy to arrangre > with the situation and think that therefore many excellelent > "communities" will break. > > What can we do against that? Is there any chance at all?
From: Hector Santos on 10 May 2010 11:49 Jerry, For the record, I did a quick import (into rnews bag files) to see where the mail is posted in two groups: microsoft.public.win32.programmer.kernel microsoft.public.vc.mfc Of course, its all relative and the recent increase of mail does tilt it but I wanted to see at least with these batches, what are the percentages per posting host. microsoft.public.win32.programmer.kernel Total: last 140 message 92 phx.gbl (This is public Microsoft NNTP server) 18 microsoft.com (MFST people??) 14 googlegroups.com 1 4ax.com 3 gmx.de 6 t-online.com 6 de.boyne.pollard.localhost (troll <g>) So at least 76% of the messages originated from microsoft servers. microsoft.public.vc.mfc Total: Last 596 messages 1 news.t-online.com 1 newsguy.com 2 kltpzyxm.invalid 2 news.ett.com.ua 2 news.sunsite.dk 3 203.50.5.233 3 giganews.com 3 news.eternal-september.org 3 speranza.aioe.org 4 mid.individual.net 5 news.astraweb.com 7 iad 12 news.inode.at 48 microsoft.com 98 googlegroup.som 162 4ax.com (Joseph M. Newcomer) 240 phx.gbl I think the quick sorting and counting is right, but as u can see, the microsoft.com and phx.gbl combined make up atleast 48%. Of course, the numbers are tilted because many of the messages are from just a few individuals within the last 600 or so messages, but then again, that would normally be the case with most topics. Another analysis is to sort by participants and see what are the unique posting hosts. -- Jerry Coffin wrote: > In article <uoQdDuj7KHA.3880(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>, sant9442 > @nospam.gmail.com says... > > [ ... ] > >> Those other SITES only proved to work and be reliable with great >> participation only because on the backend one way or another, directly >> or indirectly, they were connecting to the main source: >> >> msnews.microsoft.com > > Do you have any evidence that this is really true? > > An NNTP article has a "Path:" header that tells what servers it went > through on the way from source to destination. I've done a search on > all the messages in this newsgroup from a couple of different servers > (aioe.org and sunsite.de) for roughly the last month. Of those, not > even *one* message has a Path showing that it either originated from > or passed through a Microsoft server at any point to get to those > servers. > > Based on what I've been able to find so far, it's entirely possible > that Microsoft has actually already had their servers shut down for > months now. I'm not saying that *is* the case, but I am saying that I > can't find any evidence that a significant, or even insignificant, > percentage of messages here depend on their servers, or even go > through their servers at all. > -- HLS
From: Hector Santos on 10 May 2010 13:07
Yeah, this news.ett.com.ua seems to be very fast in distributing its postings. But now we let the cat out of the bag, and with more user connections, the server will began to slow down. :) BobF wrote: > > I just configured it - not bad! (this is from there) > > On 5/10/2010 9:08 AM, Hector Santos wrote: >> I'm posting this via news.ett.com.ua which seems to be pretty fast. >> >> BobF wrote: >> >>> >>> news.eternal-september.org is my primary. I use aioe and telesweet as >>> backups - which I don't need very often ... >>> >>> >>> On 5/9/2010 5:43 PM, Hector Santos wrote: >>>> Test of news.aioe.org posting. >>>> >>>> HA! The server restricted the TOO many quoted lines.. cutting it >>>> down.... >>>> >> > |