From: randyhyde on
On May 22, 12:11 am, Betov <b...(a)> wrote:
> > I wouldn't expect a beginner to understand those
> > lessons if they haven't first read a primer ( maybe B_U_Asm fits this
> > bill?? ) explaining necessary foundational material. There are many
> > things that "we" take for granted but a "beginner" isn't going to
> > know.
> Yes, this is an evident problem, but there is even _worse_ than this.

This is why having the material organized properly, from beginning
steps to advanced information, is important. You can't throw out a
bunch of different concepts as you've done in your tutorials and
expect them to make sense.

> There seem to be something "magic" with the confusion state of a true
> beginner facing its first lesson: They sometimes report that, at their
> first contact, they did not understood a thing. Nevertheless, after a
> bit of time, and insistence, they finaly get into.

There is nothing "magic" about the fact that if someone puts enough
time into a subject they will eventually learn it. The trick is to
teach the student the information as quickly and efficiently as
possible. If you're relying on the perserverance of the person to get
past your tutorials and figure the material out, you're simply
admitting that your tutorials are not very good and could be improved

> Now, the really strange thing, is that, when i ask them to _report_
> about the very first difficulties they have encounted, they are
> _regulary_ unable to understand, by themselves, _what_ was the
> problem, for them... A very strange psycho-effect...

There is nothing "magic" about this at all. Anyone who has taught an
introductory programming course knows exactly what the problem is:
beginners don't have the background knowledge to even formulate the
questions. This is why it's important to teach very basic material at
the beginning of the lessons rather than throwing out all kinds of
complex instructions as you've done in your first tutorial. It's why
it's important to teach the material in a linear fashion -- from basic
to complex concepts. It's why it's important to cover all the terms
and concepts you employ in your examples, before you use those
concepts in examples.

> Probably like
> if, when facing something entirely new, the brain was not really
> working... I will have to ask my wife (spycho-teacher), if such
> a problem has already been subject of some psycho study... If what
> i am suspecting is true, there will never be any real solution to
> this problem, but to recommend beginners to _insist_...

What a cop-out. You can't figure out how to teach the information to
beginners, so you blame their inability to understand your tutorials
on them.

> Back to the topic: Yes, i have been pointing to the pre-requises,
> and to the fact that there may be as many way, for learning, as
> beginners. So, i have simply added a line, at top of Lesson_1,
> for directing to: B_U_Asm ---> [Beginner's Steps]...

But this begs the question: "What purpose do the tutorials serve if
they get their knowledge from B_U_ASM?"

> where a
> beginner can read various stuffs, in the order he wants to.

And then what? What purpose do your tutorials serve at that point?

> After all, we ignore completely what a given beginners already
> knows and does not. Therefore, explaining everything, in the
> linear order, is not the way either, because reading already
> known things is boring,

They can skim over the stuff they already know. What they can't do is
fill in the holes that you've left in your tutorials of information
they *don't* know.

> and can have no effect on the learning
> curse, but to push the brain to "sleep state" and to miss important
> details.

What is important to you might not be important to someone else, just
keep that in mind.

It has been amusing, over the past 15 years or so, to listen to people
talk about how assembly language ought to be taught around here and in
other assembly related forums. It's pretty clear that most people who
have strong opinions about how the subject ought to be taught have
never stood in front of a class of beginning assembly language
students. These people (yourself included, Rene) seem to think that
all one needs to do is point people in the direction of the CPU
manuals, or have them run an automated demo program, and they'll learn
assembly language from this. While it is, perhaps, possible for some
people to learn assembly language in this manner, it certainly isn't
an efficient use of their time to learn assembly this way.

I know. I used to think like many people around here. Most of those
thoughts went right out the door when I taught my first University-
level assembly language course (I had taught "assembly" courses at
local computer stores prior to that, but those courses tend to attract
the A+ students and there is *nothing* you can do to prevent those
types of people from learning the subject).
Randy Hyde

From: Betov on
"rhyde(a)" <rhyde(a)> �crivait

> Anyone can learn a subject if they devote enough time to it. Brilliant
> tutorials are the ones that make efficient use of the student's time
> and help them learn the subject as quickly and efficiently as
> possible. That observation over many years is what led to the
> development of HLA, for example.


Thanks, Master Pdf.



< >

From: Betov on
"randyhyde(a)" <randyhyde(a)> �crivait

> [...]

Take care, clown, it seems that you becoming used to double shots
posts... An effect of selinity, perhaps... Yes, senility, from an
IQ under 80, must be a terrible thing...



< >

From: Jim Carlock on
"Evenbit" wrote:
: TiddlyWiki (personal web notebook)
: <snip>...</snip>
: Getting Things Done (GTDTiddlyWiki) {old, NLS}
: TiddlyWiki-SE
: News Smashup

There's also... MediaWiki (server-side MySQL, no fancy js flights):

Download Page:

Jim Carlock
Post replies to the group.

From: Evenbit on
On May 23, 11:09 am, "Jim Carlock" <anonym...(a)> wrote:
> There's also... MediaWiki (server-side MySQL, no fancy js flights):
> Download Page:

Awk!! You wanna take all the fun out of the party?? ;)

The Cons of _server-side_ solutions:

o Reader must be online to navigate the contents.
o Forced to depend on some sort of server service.
o Vulnerability to "SQL injection" type exploits (remember the
attack on Hutch's pitiful excuse for a board?)
o etc...

Besides, it has already been done:

Interesting to note Crime & Company's approach to the 'numbering
systems' discussion includes a "C" language source example. So you
see, Randy isn't the only one encouraging students to learn a HLL
"while" they are also learning assembly. ;-)

I produced an odometer.s --
.file "odometer.c"
.section .rodata
.string "%05d\r"
..globl main
.type main, @function
pushl %ebp
movl %esp, %ebp
subl $24, %esp
andl $-16, %esp
movl $0, %eax
addl $15, %eax
addl $15, %eax
shrl $4, %eax
sall $4, %eax
subl %eax, %esp
movl $9985, -4(%ebp)
jmp .L2
movl -4(%ebp), %eax
movl %eax, 4(%esp)
movl $.LC0, (%esp)
call printf
movl stdout, %eax
movl %eax, (%esp)
call fflush
movl $1, (%esp)
call sleep
addl $1, -4(%ebp)
cmpl $10000, -4(%ebp)
jle .L3
movl $0, %eax
.size main, .-main
.ident "GCC: (GNU) 4.0.3 (Ubuntu 4.0.3-1ubuntu5)"
.section .note.GNU-stack,"",@progbits

I do not believe I can improve upon that very much by writing it from


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