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From: Chris H on 16 Nov 2009 10:10 In message <gZGdnYq9CITE_5zWnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, Neil Harrington <secret(a)illumnati.net> writes > >"Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message >news:UWxjDpHSvVALFAUi(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk... >> In message <c-CdnXIhyIZ0ypzWnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, Neil >> Harrington <secret(a)illumnati.net> writes >>> >>>"Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message >>>news:vhLdubL4YBALFAxO(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk... >>>> In message <1e00g51800npsuco24380ml1u76jrfa7lf(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper >>>> <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >>>>>On 15 Nov 2009 06:48:13 GMT, rfischer(a)sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>>>>On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:03:59 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton" >>>>>>><nospamclayton(a)btinternet.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>US units are a shambolic mess, inconsistent with each other and >>>>>>>>almost >>>>>>>>completely irrational for dealing with the real world. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>And yet we manage. >>>>>> >>>>>>Only just. >>>>>> >>>>>>>The world that each of us lives in is the "real world". We, who live >>>>>>>in the US, have no problem dealing with our system. >>>>>> >>>>>>"No problem"?? How many yards in a mile? How many feet in a quarter >>>>>>mile? How many teaspoons in a cup? If you don't know those offhand >>>>>>then you obviously have problems dealing with the system. >>>>> >>>>>If you have a legitimate example of how we have a problem with the >>>>>system, then state it. >>>> >>>> Interfacing with the rest of the world. >>> >>>What specifically is the problem? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units >> >> For example the whole world uses ISO A4 and the US uses US letter.... so >> when the US want to communicate with the rest of the world it has to use >> A4 and for internal use uses Letter. > >Why? I have sent letters to European companies using our letter size and >received replies from them, probably on their A4 size (they're close enough >that I never noticed any difference). Where's the problem? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size http://betweenborders.com/wordsmithing/a4-vs-us-letter/ For a lot of Official use it has to be on A sizes. Also Letter size advertising does not fit standard size literature racks. It is getting better as more of the US uses International standards. >> Dates are another problem the whole world bar the USA uses DD/MM/YY and >> the US uses MM/DD/YY it causes problems. > >Again, not a problem. If I write "November 16" and you write "16 November," >do either of us misunderstand the other? Besides, your statement is not >quite correct. True but if I write 9/11/2001 when is it? November or September? Well everywhere except the US it is November. Though obviously "9/11" has a life of it's own. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 > MM/DD/YY is our standard civilian form, but our military has >used DD/MM/YY for many years. It had to as the US military needed to talk to people other than US civilians. As I said it is only a problem where the US wants to talk to the rest of the world. If having the worlds largest army does not help then eventually you will have to change.... BTW that is why the US now uses 9mm rather than .45 and NATO uses 556 rather than 7.62 > That causes no problems here either. My >sister, an ex-Navy employee retired for several years, still writes dates >that way. There is a joke about that. Small split military /civil airfield in the US... Unidentified aircraft: Tower, Time check please! Tower: Civil or Military? Unidentified aircraft: What difference does it make? Tower: If you are Army it is 15:00 if you are Civil it is 3 O'clock. Unidentified aircraft: We are Marines. Tower: It's Mid Afternoon! :-))) >And don't the Japanese still use YY/MM/DD? That is really the most logical >system of all, since it automatically sorts dates correctly which neither >our methods nor yours do. If we're going to change at all, we should change >to the Japanese system. Not at all That is the ISO system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format#Date_format There is bug endian (year first) and smal end (day first) but in either case it is D M Y or Y M D in various forms. But always in unit progression. >> It is no conscience to Americans who only interact with other Americans >> but as soon as Americans have to interact externally it will cause >> Americans problems, time and money. > >It never has so far, that I know of. You are straining mightily to produce >an argument for an insupportable position. It is the reason why until very recently no one knew what had happened to Glen Miller. The whilst the US continues to work to different standards to the rest of the world there will be problems where conversions and interfaces occur. It cost Glenn Miller his life. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: Savageduck on 16 Nov 2009 10:20 On 2009-11-16 06:10:36 -0800, "Neil Harrington" <secret(a)illumnati.net> said: > > "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message > news:tvGdnSo6OsafMJ3WnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >> >> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message >> news:2009111517302780278-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom... >>> On 2009-11-15 17:24:37 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said: >>> >>>> >>>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message >>>> news:2009111517220470933-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom... > > >>>>> >>>>> Good guns always commanded high prices, as they do today. >>>>> I know, my Kimber set me back $1200. >>>>> http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/G-Kimber-CDP-LAc.jpg >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Nice looking autoloader....Is it 9 mm? >>> >>> >>> >>> That sir is a good old 1911 design 45 ACP! Not some pissy 9mm. >>> >>> 9mm indeed?? !!!! >>> >>> For doublestack I have a Glock Model 23 in 40 S&W. >>> >>> -- >> Well! - Sorrrrrry. I used to have a colt auto chambered in 9 mm. It was >> the most reliable auto I ever had. > > You can't beat the good old 9mm, but you'll never convince .45 fanciers of > that. They all have an abiding faith in those pumpkin rollers and are > impervious to reason. ;-) > > I've owned a lot of .45s myself, but all my automatics now (apart from > rimfires of course) are either 9mm or 9mm short, and my revolvers are all > .38/.357. It's just the ideal bore size. If God owned a handgun it would be > in some 9mm/.38 caliber. > >> Generally, I preferred to carry revolvers, because I needed to know they >> were going to go off if I ever had to fire them. Also, I wanted to walk >> away with my empties still in the chamber and not lying someplace on the >> ground. > > Yes, there are some obvious advantages to that. However, as far as > reliability goes revolvers can have their problems too. I have a nice little > S&W .38 hammerless on a light alloy frame, lovely thing to carry, almost > brand new but it needs to see a gunsmith because it's stopped shooting -- > something inside is cramped or binding. And I once had a brand-new Colt > Agent that wouldn't work either. (Fortunately I'm only about 15 miles from > the Colt factory, but it would've been bad luck if I'd just loaded that > thing, put it away and some day had to use it in a hurry.) You might find the new Ruger LCR in 38 Special loaded with +Ps interesting. http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/lcr/index.html I too like 38/357 weapons. They are easier for those not comfortable with heavy recoil weapons, and can be very accurate. As far as 9mm goes, I guess I am just prejudiced. My auto ammo preferences are 45 ACP and 40 S&W. As a modern combat round 40 S&W outperforms both 9mm and 45 ACP. For high capacity, my Glock Model 23 uses 13 round magazines and performs well as a combat weapon. (I hate the trigger though!) 40 S&W matches 45 ACP in energy output, though it is inherently less accurate. Neither 9mm nor 40 S&W can match 45 ACP combined with a tuned 1911 pistol or a Target 38 Special such as a S&W K38 Masterpiece, or Model 52. ....and my Kimber CDP II in 45 ACP with a single stack magazine, great trigger, full meltdown treatment and flat profile, is the best and most accurate carry weapon I have ever owned. I just love that gun! It was worth every penny and US made to boot. -- Regards, Savageduck
From: Chris H on 16 Nov 2009 10:19 In message <pcq2g5lvb9cibin55fnructdunko0sr6ls(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:04:02 +0000, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >wrote: > >>The US will have to use the International systems when talking to the >>rest of the world. This means doing lots of conversions, holding dual >>stock etc >> >>For example the whole world uses ISO A4 and the US uses US letter.... so >>when the US want to communicate with the rest of the world it has to use >>A4 and for internal use uses Letter. > >Are you saying that if an American - individual or corporate entity - >wants to send a letter to a foreign entity that the letter must be on >A4 paper for the foreign entity to read it? No. That would be silly > That non-Americans are >unable to understand something because it is written on paper that is >8.5" x 11"? >You've said some stupid things because of your anti-American bias, but >this tops most of them. If you want to send a paper to a conference, to a standards organisation etc or an official document to a Government etc then Yes it will have to go on A4 paper. This came up elsewhere that non-US international conferences often *require* paper submissions on in a particular format on A4. All inter government correspondence is apparently on A4 I do know of non-US companies who have told US companies to resend their adverting literature on A4 as US Letter did not fit the literature racks. Apparently most US printers can get the International paper sizes as it is becoming more common. I don't know why the US still insists on being different. Over the last two decades for many things the rest of the world has moved to take up international standards except the US. In fact the US was the only industrial nation globally to be different on most things. Now it is the only nation, industrial or not that does not use the same as the rest of the world. Eventually the US will have to take up a lot of them where they deal with the outside world. Though internally it can do what it likes. Though that may change soon. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: Chris H on 16 Nov 2009 10:29 In message <cnq2g5tp8hnehc3iu4i36m5p4i932deuse(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:21:54 +0000, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >wrote: > >>SO a revolver jam is usually fatal. This is why autos have a reputation >>for jamming, people cleared them and lived to tell the tail. > >So they had a brush with death? > >(I'm sure that pun is over your head, so I'll explain that a fox's >tail is called a "brush".) I used to live in Gloucestershire. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: Chris H on 16 Nov 2009 10:28
In message <rs2dncQadslz9ZzWnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, Neil Harrington <secret(a)illumnati.net> writes > >"Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message >news:rWFsDoKCAWALFACL(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk... >> In message <e4ydnf8Ny7zCwJzWnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, Neil >> Harrington <secret(a)illumnati.net> writes >>> >>>"Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >>>news:tvGdnSo6OsafMJ3WnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >>>> >>>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message >>>> news:2009111517302780278-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom... >>>>> On 2009-11-15 17:24:37 -0800, "Bill Graham" <weg9(a)comcast.net> said: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:2009111517220470933-savageduck1(a)REMOVESPAMmecom... >>>> Well! - Sorrrrrry. I used to have a colt auto chambered in 9 mm. It was >>>> the most reliable auto I ever had. >>> >>>You can't beat the good old 9mm, but you'll never convince .45 fanciers of >>>that. They all have an abiding faith in those pumpkin rollers and are >>>impervious to reason. ;-) >> >> Having used both the answer is "it depends" on why you are carrying and >> pistol and the conditions. In the 70's when I used a pistol the .45 was >> a better choice for operational reasons for urban work. For battle field >> work a 9mm. > >If you mean because of stopping power vs. firepower, I think the >much-vaunted stopping power of the .45 is largely a myth. Sort of. In the 1970's body armour was not common. Certainly the terrorists we were up against did not have any. However there were a lot of civilians in the urban setting. A .45 would hit the target but not usually go through and hit anything else. The faster narrower 9mm tended to go through and come out the other side thus causing collateral damage. So if we used a .45 it would stop the target without causing collateral (civilian ) damage. It also did have a lot of stopping power. We also only needed a few rounds. So 8 was usually plenty and in any even I carried 2 more magazines. In the battle filed there were not usually any civilians and the better penetrating power of the faster 9mm would punch through webbing and kit. Hitting the person behind was a bonus not a manslaughter charge :-) >Several years ago, >two police officers wrote a book on the subject of stopping power (sorry I >can't recall either their names or the book's title), based on their >extensive study of actual shooting cases. What they went by, and graded >their results by, was the percentage of "one-shot stops" for every caliber >and load for which they could obtain data. Their conclusion as I recall it >was that stopping power was much more dependent on the specific load than on >the caliber, and the best one turned out to be a 115-grain JHP in 9mm, with >a roughly comparable .45 load close behind. Full-jacket loads in either >caliber fell far behind, not surprisingly. That would be an interesting book. See if you can remember what it was. (I am not doubting you or the book I just want to read it :- >Now at the time of their survey the .40 S&W either didn't yet exist or >wasn't as popular as it has become. My guess is that that caliber would >outperform either the 9mm or .45 in a real-life situation, but probably not >by very much. Also a lot bigger and less easy to handle in a fire fight (unless your name is Clint and the Director is a friend) >My own belief is that it all comes down to kinetic energy, assuming a bullet >so constructed as to efficiently transmit that energy to the target rather >than wasting it on the scenery beyond, and assuming optimum placement of >course. I agree. >> SO a revolver jam is usually fatal. This is why autos have a reputation >> for jamming, people cleared them and lived to tell the tail. When the >> revolver jammed no one knew. > >Heh. That could be. Just a thought... no idea if it is right just a gut feeling. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |