When Did Detroit Start Building Cars Like Japanese dSLRs????
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From: J�rgen Exner on 16 Nov 2009 15:09 "Neil Harrington" <secret(a)illumnati.net> wrote: >The bothersome one is Fahrenheit to Centigrade (or Celsius as they've >decided to call it for some silly reason), Actually it's quite obvious: those are not 1/100th of a degree (as the prefix centi implies) but honest to god, true, full degrees. jue
From: J. Clarke on 16 Nov 2009 15:10 Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote: > ? "Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> ?????? ??? ?????? > news:gX++zyMutWALFAiV(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk... >> In message <gZGdnYq9CITE_5zWnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, Neil >> Harrington <secret(a)illumnati.net> writes >>> >>> "Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message >>> news:UWxjDpHSvVALFAUi(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk... >>>> In message <c-CdnXIhyIZ0ypzWnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, Neil >>>> Harrington <secret(a)illumnati.net> writes >>>>> >>>>> "Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message >>>>> news:vhLdubL4YBALFAxO(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk... >>>>>> In message <1e00g51800npsuco24380ml1u76jrfa7lf(a)4ax.com>, tony >>>>>> cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes >>>>>>> On 15 Nov 2009 06:48:13 GMT, rfischer(a)sonic.net (Ray Fischer) >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:03:59 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton" >>>>>>>>> <nospamclayton(a)btinternet.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> US units are a shambolic mess, inconsistent with each other >>>>>>>>>> and almost >>>>>>>>>> completely irrational for dealing with the real world. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And yet we manage. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Only just. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The world that each of us lives in is the "real world". We, >>>>>>>>> who live >>>>>>>>> in the US, have no problem dealing with our system. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "No problem"?? How many yards in a mile? How many feet in a >>>>>>>> quarter mile? How many teaspoons in a cup? If you don't know >>>>>>>> those offhand then you obviously have problems dealing with >>>>>>>> the system. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have a legitimate example of how we have a problem with >>>>>>> the system, then state it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Interfacing with the rest of the world. >>>>> >>>>> What specifically is the problem? >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units >> >>>> >>>> For example the whole world uses ISO A4 and the US uses US >>>> letter.... so when the US want to communicate with the rest of the >>>> world it has to use A4 and for internal use uses Letter. >>> >>> Why? I have sent letters to European companies using our letter >>> size and received replies from them, probably on their A4 size >>> (they're close enough >>> that I never noticed any difference). Where's the problem? >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size >> >> http://betweenborders.com/wordsmithing/a4-vs-us-letter/ >> >> For a lot of Official use it has to be on A sizes. Also Letter size >> advertising does not fit standard size literature racks. It is >> getting better as more of the US uses International standards. >> >>>> Dates are another problem the whole world bar the USA uses >>>> DD/MM/YY and the US uses MM/DD/YY it causes problems. >>> >>> Again, not a problem. If I write "November 16" and you write "16 >>> November," >>> do either of us misunderstand the other? Besides, your statement is >>> not quite correct. >> >> True but if I write 9/11/2001 when is it? November or September? Well >> everywhere except the US it is November. Though obviously "9/11" has >> a life of it's own. >> >> >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 >> >>> MM/DD/YY is our standard civilian form, but our military has >>> used DD/MM/YY for many years. >> >> It had to as the US military needed to talk to people other than US >> civilians. As I said it is only a problem where the US wants to talk >> to the rest of the world. If having the worlds largest army does not >> help then eventually you will have to change.... BTW that is why the >> US now uses 9mm rather than .45 and NATO uses 556 rather than 7.62 >> > We used .45 browning pistols, the BMG .50 cartridge (API) and the > standard > 7.62 (.30) NATO caliber. 5.56 is a smaller calliber (I think .20) > which is supposed to be more humane to the target, thus the person > being shot. 5.56 is also known as .223 Remington (there is a very tiny dimensional difference in the case that might cause problems with a few firearms, but it was originally a civilian cartridge) and it is used not because it is "more humane to the target" but because it has less recoil than 7.62mm NATO, thus allowing controllable full auto fire hand-held, and is lighter, thus allowing soldiers to carry more ammunition. Note that the first time 5.56mm was put into service it was by the US military in Vietnam, it's not something that the US adapted as a result of pressure from somebody in the EU. No other nation wanted anything to do with it until the US got the bugs out of the M-16, which, as initially issued, was pretty poor. The 9mm pistol was adopted by the US military mainly due to the difficulty of training soldiers to shoot the .45 accurately--again it trades power for controllability and lighter ammunition. The 9mm cartridge had been in use worldwide for around a half a century at the time so why develop a new one? > That was the greek mechanized infantry. Of course, all > the fluids are measured in liters, the tank (G 127 "Leonidas" armored > fighting vehicle) has 2 tanks with each 181 liters of diesel which > give it an endurance of 520 km. > > >>> That causes no problems here either. My >>> sister, an ex-Navy employee retired for several years, still writes >>> dates that way. >> >> There is a joke about that. >> >> Small split military /civil airfield in the US... >> >> Unidentified aircraft: Tower, Time check please! >> Tower: Civil or Military? >> Unidentified aircraft: What difference does it make? >> Tower: If you are Army it is 15:00 if you are Civil it is 3 O'clock. >> Unidentified aircraft: We are Marines. >> Tower: It's Mid Afternoon! >> :-))) >> >> >>> And don't the Japanese still use YY/MM/DD? That is really the most >>> logical system of all, since it automatically sorts dates correctly >>> which neither our methods nor yours do. If we're going to change at >>> all, we should change >>> to the Japanese system. >> Not at all That is the ISO system >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format#Date_format >> >> There is bug endian (year first) and smal end (day first) but in >> either case it is D M Y or Y M D in various forms. But always in >> unit progression. >> >> >>>> It is no conscience to Americans who only interact with other >>>> Americans but as soon as Americans have to interact externally it >>>> will cause Americans problems, time and money. >>> >>> It never has so far, that I know of. You are straining mightily to >>> produce an argument for an insupportable position. >> >> It is the reason why until very recently no one knew what had >> happened to Glen Miller. >> >> The whilst the US continues to work to different standards to the >> rest of the world there will be problems where conversions and >> interfaces occur. It cost Glenn Miller his life.
From: tony cooper on 16 Nov 2009 15:33 On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:00:02 +0000, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >>>still drives on the left. However >>>it is a real mess and unlike the A4/Letter change the UK with it's >>>modern road systems will find it impossible to change to the right... >>> >>I see. The UK can't change their driving habits, > >Not possible now. Too many purpose designed roads > >> but you expect the >>US to change their measurement system to conform to yours. > >No not to mine but the whole world except the US The point is that you say it's impossible for one little island to change from driving on the left to driving on the right, but expect the entire US - which dwarfs that island in size and population - to change their entire system of weights and measures. Not possible now. Too many purpose-designed applications. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: Neil Harrington on 16 Nov 2009 16:10 "Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message news:gX++zyMutWALFAiV(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk... > In message <gZGdnYq9CITE_5zWnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, Neil > Harrington <secret(a)illumnati.net> writes >> >>"Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message >>news:UWxjDpHSvVALFAUi(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk... > >>> Dates are another problem the whole world bar the USA uses DD/MM/YY and >>> the US uses MM/DD/YY it causes problems. >> >>Again, not a problem. If I write "November 16" and you write "16 >>November," >>do either of us misunderstand the other? Besides, your statement is not >>quite correct. > > True but if I write 9/11/2001 when is it? November or September? Well > everywhere except the US it is November. Though obviously "9/11" has a > life of it's own. Now there you have a point. On the other hand, a term like "Greenwich time" can have different meanings too depending on where you are. To many it would mean GMT; to some it might mean the time in Greenwich, Connecticut for example. Context can change the meaning of many terms. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 > >> MM/DD/YY is our standard civilian form, but our military has >>used DD/MM/YY for many years. > > It had to as the US military needed to talk to people other than US > civilians. There are other differences. The U.S. military uses the 24-hour clock, while civilians use a 12-hour clock just as I believe they still do in the UK, Canada and other English-speaking places. Why don't the Brits use a 24-hour clock, if consistency with what the rest of the world is doing is so important? > As I said it is only a problem where the US wants to talk to > the rest of the world. If having the worlds largest army does not help > then eventually you will have to change.... BTW that is why the US now > uses 9mm rather than .45 and NATO uses 556 rather than 7.62 Not exactly. The U.S. adopted the 9mm Parabellum cartridge because it's half the weight of the .45 Auto, and therefore a soldier can carry twice as many rounds. The decision was to go to a lighter but still powerful cartridge, and the 9mm P was *there* and was commonplace among other militaries; there would have been no point in developing a new cartridge when a perfectly satisfactory one already existed and was in general use. Note that in World War II all the Allies used different ammunition for sidearms. We used the .45 Auto primarily but also the .38 Special (except for General Patton, who used a .45 Colt and a .357 Magnum), and general officers were issued .380 Auto pistols. The British used the .455 Webley primarily but also revolvers in .38 S&W (which they termed .380 Webley & Scott, I believe). The French were still using M1892 revolvers in 8mm, and also pistols in the pipsqueak 7.65mm French caliber. The Russians of course had their old Nagant 7.62mm revolver (a curiosity if there ever was one) as well as the newer Tokarev pistols in a different 7.62mm cartridge. These differences caused no problems that I'm aware of: I never heard of an army running out of pistol ammunition because it wasn't the same size as their allies'. As for the 5.56mm, remember that that was an American cartridge (actually a slight modification of the existing Remington .222 Magnum), the rifle also developed here and later adopted by NATO, not the other way around. Similarly the 7.62mm NATO cartridge was developed in the U.S. (where it is also sold as a civilian sporting cartridge, the .308 Winchester). The 7.62 continues to be used as a machine gun cartridge -- as does the .50 Browning cartridge. > >> That causes no problems here either. My >>sister, an ex-Navy employee retired for several years, still writes dates >>that way. > > There is a joke about that. > > Small split military /civil airfield in the US... > > Unidentified aircraft: Tower, Time check please! > Tower: Civil or Military? > Unidentified aircraft: What difference does it make? > Tower: If you are Army it is 15:00 if you are Civil it is 3 O'clock. > Unidentified aircraft: We are Marines. > Tower: It's Mid Afternoon! > :-))) > > >>And don't the Japanese still use YY/MM/DD? That is really the most logical >>system of all, since it automatically sorts dates correctly which neither >>our methods nor yours do. If we're going to change at all, we should >>change >>to the Japanese system. > Not at all That is the ISO system > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format#Date_format Yes, Googling it just now I see it's used by about two dozen countries, not just Japan. So why doesn't the rest of the world do *that*? The salientl point here is, the whole world has not gone along with some wonderful universal standard as you seem to believe it should. A major (arguably *the* major) source of our energy is still oil, which is still measured in barrels all over the world, isn't it? It would be easy to use some metric measure for that, but as far as I know no one has, anywhere. > > There is bug endian (year first) and smal end (day first) but in either > case it is D M Y or Y M D in various forms. But always in unit > progression. Obviously that doesn't solve the very problem you yourself mentioned earlier: for example, what would the date 04/05/06 mean? April 5, 2006 -- or May 4, 2006 -- or May 6, 2004? As I said, it's all in the context. > > >>> It is no conscience to Americans who only interact with other Americans >>> but as soon as Americans have to interact externally it will cause >>> Americans problems, time and money. >> >>It never has so far, that I know of. You are straining mightily to produce >>an argument for an insupportable position. > > It is the reason why until very recently no one knew what had happened > to Glen Miller. No one really seems to know "what had happened to Glen (sic) Miller," though there are plenty of stories and theories, none of them having anything to do with metric as far as I'm aware.
From: Neil Harrington on 16 Nov 2009 16:32
"Chris H" <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote in message news:kH2$3MNP2WALFADz(a)phaedsys.demon.co.uk... > > I don't know why the US still insists on being different. We aren't. We have remained the same, with generally the same standards. It's other countries that have changed, and for some reason you now want us to go along with whatever the current fad is. We won't do that without having some good reason for it, and there isn't any good reason. Why does this bother you so? > Over the last > two decades for many things the rest of the world has moved to take up > international standards except the US. In fact the US was the only > industrial nation globally to be different on most things. Now it is > the only nation, industrial or not that does not use the same as the > rest of the world. What part of "the rest of the world" uses something other than barrels as a measure for crude oil? Barrels are not metric. Neither are knots, an international standard unit for speed both at sea and in the air. Neither are hours, minutes and seconds, either in time or in geometry. Neither are astronomical units. Neither are light years. These are all important things to measure and/or use in calculations, and none of them are or can be made to be dependant on the everything-has-to-go-by-orders-of-ten metric system. |