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From: Austin Lesea on 12 Jan 2006 18:10 Kevin, Actually, I do have some possible places for you to go look: University robotics competitions The DARPA intelligent vehicle crowd (Berkeley's motorcycle used V2 Pro for vision, just too bad they used a two wheel vehicle, and it fell over and were disqualified!). The Mars rovers used Virtex' for control, but they have six wheels! Amateur radio software defined radio: ARRL Magazine has their technical rag, http://www.arrl.org/qex/ which has had articles of SDR using both Xilinx and Altera FPGAs. There is even a hobby project SDR that comes with a FPGA. Good luck, Austin
From: Anonymous on 12 Jan 2006 18:02 Don't have the time for an interview but I think you need to revise your time line. I was etching my own PC boards, hand assembling boards, and burning my own proms up to the early 90s. The "dark age" was probably in the 90s when everything switched over to surface mount. I think the renaissance now is hacking WITHOUT a soldering iron, e.g. hacking tivo or ipod software, building custom mame video machines, re-flashing boxes like linksys routers, etc. "Kevin Morris" <kevin(a)techfocusmedia.com> wrote in message news:1137096913.255199.239090(a)o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > I'm writing a feature article for FPGA Journal (www.fpgajournal.com) > about FPGAs and the re-birth of the electronics hobbyist. My theory is > that electronics as a hobby went through a "dark age" period, maybe > from the early/mid 1970s until recently becuase of the inaccessibility > and cost of designing with state-of-the-art technology. Radio Shack > shifted their focus from 50-in-1 project kits and hobbyist parts to > selling toys, cell-phones, and stereo equipment. > > Now, with the emergence of low-cost, high-capability FPGAs, development > boards, and design software, I see a new age of hobbyist activity > beginning (as often evidenced in this group). > > I'm looking for a few people that would be willing to express views on > this topic for the article. > > I know, Austin will probably post a strong technical argument that > Xilinx FPGAs are uniquely attractive to the hobbyist, somebody from > Altera will send me a Cubic Cyclonium prototyping paperweight (they're > very cool), and Actel and Lattice people will post just to remind us > that they have low-cost kits too, but I'm primarily interested in some > info from real, live, "working" hobbyists. > > Any takers? >
From: Mike Harrison on 12 Jan 2006 19:23 On 12 Jan 2006 12:15:13 -0800, "Kevin Morris" <kevin(a)techfocusmedia.com> wrote: >I'm writing a feature article for FPGA Journal (www.fpgajournal.com) >about FPGAs and the re-birth of the electronics hobbyist. My theory is >that electronics as a hobby went through a "dark age" period, maybe >from the early/mid 1970s until recently becuase of the inaccessibility >and cost of designing with state-of-the-art technology. Radio Shack >shifted their focus from 50-in-1 project kits and hobbyist parts to >selling toys, cell-phones, and stereo equipment. I think it was more about the fact that it became less possible to build things for less money than you could buy them for... > >Now, with the emergence of low-cost, high-capability FPGAs, development >boards, and design software, I see a new age of hobbyist activity >beginning (as often evidenced in this group). > >I'm looking for a few people that would be willing to express views on >this topic for the article. > >I know, Austin will probably post a strong technical argument that >Xilinx FPGAs are uniquely attractive to the hobbyist, somebody from >Altera will send me a Cubic Cyclonium prototyping paperweight (they're >very cool), and Actel and Lattice people will post just to remind us >that they have low-cost kits too, but I'm primarily interested in some >info from real, live, "working" hobbyists. > >Any takers? I assume you are aware of www.fpga4fun.com - you should certainly ask for input there. A few assorted ramblings, in no particular order.... I think a major development has been the availability of free devtools - for a long, long time PLDs and later FPGAs were the exclusive territory of the professionals due to the high entry cost of the software, not to mention the steep learning curve and cost of the computing power needed at the time. Few hobbyists would have the patience to wait through multi-hour compile times. I think the FPGA hobbyist thing has happened more by accident than anything else due to the availability of cheap devboards and free software, rather than any conscious effort by FPGA suppliers. I don't think the FPGA companies have yet really woken up to the needs of the low-volume user market. Contrast this with companies like Microchip in the MCU arena, who have always had a policy of supporting the lower volume users, not necessarily hobbyists in particular, but by catering for low-volumes this happens anyway - easy availability of chips in sensible packages at low volumes makes a big difference, and many hobbyist/student users go on to be professional users, which in the long term has to be good for the business of the companies whose products they first started playing with . I'm a little surprised that we haven't yet seen (well not that I've noticed - apologies if I've missed you...) any of the many hobbyist oriented suppliers that have appeared in the MCU area in recent years start looking at making very low cost FPGA boards - for example a PCB with a 40 pin DIL footprint containing a small FPGA, config device and JTAG connector maybe be quite popular. As long as FPGAs are the preserve of distributors like Avnet, low-volume/hobbyist takeup is going to be limited. Packaging is an obvoius barrier, and I doubt that many FPGA hobbyists venture further than using ready-made demo boards. On the other hand I also wonder how many hobbyists actually have a need for the speed and power that an FPGA provides - there are so many fun thnigs that can be done with microcontrollers, how many hobbyists have the time and inclination to venture into the sort of speeds and complexities that need FPGAS (and have the test gear to support it). I would be somewhat skeptical about FPGAs being anything to do with a 'rebirth of the electronics hobbyist', if such a rebirth is indeed occurring. Unless maybe you consider a move by some of the people that were messing with MCUs into FPGAs a shift from a software to a hardware activity, which is tenuous at best..! OK, a few hobbyists are moving into work that is of much greater complexity than was possible without FPGAs but I doubt that there are many who have seen FPGAs as a way into electronics in general. From a personal point of view, although an electronics professional, I also manage to do the occasional hobby project, and recently ventured into the world FPGAs for a project that would simply not have been worth the effort doing without the availability of a cheap FPGA devboard and software to base it on : www.electricstuff.co.uk/ektapro.html (lower half of page), and I already have plans for another couple of 'fun' FPGA projects.
From: Phil Tomson on 12 Jan 2006 19:28 In article <1137096913.255199.239090(a)o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, Kevin Morris <kevin(a)techfocusmedia.com> wrote: >I'm writing a feature article for FPGA Journal (www.fpgajournal.com) >about FPGAs and the re-birth of the electronics hobbyist. My theory is >that electronics as a hobby went through a "dark age" period, maybe >from the early/mid 1970s until recently becuase of the inaccessibility >and cost of designing with state-of-the-art technology. Radio Shack >shifted their focus from 50-in-1 project kits and hobbyist parts to >selling toys, cell-phones, and stereo equipment. Well, I would say that the 'dark age' began more in the early to mid 80's when everything started going surface mount. Lots of people experimented with 74XX parts back when they were in DIP packages. > >Now, with the emergence of low-cost, high-capability FPGAs, development >boards, and design software, I see a new age of hobbyist activity >beginning (as often evidenced in this group). > >I'm looking for a few people that would be willing to express views on >this topic for the article. > >I know, Austin will probably post a strong technical argument that >Xilinx FPGAs are uniquely attractive to the hobbyist, somebody from >Altera will send me a Cubic Cyclonium prototyping paperweight (they're >very cool), and Actel and Lattice people will post just to remind us >that they have low-cost kits too, but I'm primarily interested in some >info from real, live, "working" hobbyists. it doesn't matter who makes the kits, per se, it's the fact that for $100 now you can buy an FPGA starter kit with 300,000 to 400,000 gates or so (and a good amount of memory). I really think the Xilinxs, Alteras, Lattices, etc. don't know what they've got. Perhaps they don't want to be bothered with a consumer/hobbyist market, however, I think that a company like Radio Shack could really capitalize on this: kind of like a return to the 50-in-1 project kits we had as kids, only now it could be 50,000 in one with an FPGA board, memory, USB interface, etc. They could setup a website where people could download & share code. They could sell addons: sensor boards, etc. Given the success of Lego Mindstorms (and there's the new Lego NXT robotics kits coming out this summer) it seems to me that there is an opportunity for consumer level FPGA kit priced under $200. Software engineers could be a good market for an FPGA kit aimed at helping them to create hardware accelerators for software - maybe a relatively small market right now, but it could really grow if hardware acceleration became 'easy' (or at least 'easier'). Also, look at the success of Make magazine: it seems to indicate that there's potentially a big market of makers, tinkerers, hardware hackers, etc. > >Any takers? > I think the advent of open source FPGA related design software will also help bring in more hobbyists. Phil
From: Peter Alfke on 12 Jan 2006 20:10
I have struggled for decades to come up with enticing demo projects for digital circuits, and I have made my rules: It must be something that cannot be done with just a microprocessor. That means it must be something fast. Audio, video, radio, robotics come to mind. Or, for FPGAs, it must be a platform that allows all sorts of variations. Like the Swis Army knife of electronics. Most likely it must be something that appeals to a limited number of people. That way the toy industry has not yet made it available for $ 9.99. (That was the death of some of my keyboard synthesizer projects in the 'seventies.) I think a secondary light-triggered (slave) flash unit would be very useful for all those small digital cameras, but that does not need an FPGA... :-( Peter Alfke |