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From: Eric Smith on 13 Jan 2006 19:16 "Peter Alfke" <peter(a)xilinx.com> writes: > I have struggled for decades to come up with enticing demo projects for > digital circuits, and I have made my rules: > It must be something that cannot be done with just a microprocessor. > That means it must be something fast. Audio, video, radio, robotics > come to mind. What? No traffic lights and vending machines? :-) It's always entertaining when people pop up in various newsgroups (including this one), wanting help with their vending machine project, and insisting that it isn't homework.
From: Eric Smith on 13 Jan 2006 19:23 Francesco wrote: > (even if I think that the starter kit are still too expensive for > people that want electronics as an hobby) I can't claim to know the economics of hobbyists elsewhere in the world, but IMNSHO in the US, someone who can't afford to spend USD $99 on something needed for their hobby doesn't realy qualify as a "hobbyist". People routinely spend orders of magnitude more than that on hobbies other than electronics. And yes, I remember back when I was a starving college student. Even then I managed to spend much more than $99/year on hobby items, though perhaps I shouldn't have. One guy I knew back then complained that he couldn't afford a $100 computer (a Timex/Sinclair or the like), even though he typically spent well over $100 per month on accessorizing his sports car. It's a matter of priorities.
From: Piotr Wyderski on 13 Jan 2006 19:55 Kevin Morris wrote: > My theory is that electronics as a hobby went through a "dark age" > period, maybe from the early/mid 1970s until recently becuase of the inaccessibility > and cost of designing with state-of-the-art technology. I think it is not true. Hobbyists do not need state-of-the-art technology, they need satisfaction -- this is the key difference compared to professional electronics. For one person a simple LED blinker is perfectly enough, somebody else is happy when his three transistor AM radio is working, there also are hobbyists doing DSP using FPGAs just for fun. The next problem is related with the lack of appropriate technologies. SMD parts were useless, because we didn't know how to produce good enough single layer PCBs at home, not to mention double layer boards. Now we have two competitive technologies (optical, based on photoactive resins and the second one, called "thermotransfer", which directly transfers the pattern from a sheet of paper printed by a laser printer onto the copper surface using a flatiron and two rags). We've even learned how to make precise two-sided PCBs using that technologies. Now the SMD components in TQFP/SO/TSSOP are no longer a problem. But we still don't know how to solder BGAs and QFNs... > Radio Shack shifted their focus from 50-in-1 project kits I think that kits are a big misunderstanding, because you just need to connect provided parts as described on a provided diagram. Even a chimp could do it. The trick is to design the device yourself, from scratch. It needn't be perfect, it sometimes produces smoke, but it's _yours_. > (as often evidenced in this group). Hmm, really? ;-) As far as I know the only "pure" hobbyists here are Antti and myself, the rest is more or less professional. > I know, Austin will probably post a strong technical argument that > Xilinx FPGAs are uniquely attractive to the hobbyist Hard to obtain in small quantities... > and Actel and Lattice people will post just to remind us > that they have low-cost kits too But they do not provide free simulators, so they are virtually useless for hobbyists. > but I'm primarily interested in some info from real, live, "working" hobbyists. Well, I hope it's useful... . :-) Best regards Piotr Wyderski -- "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?" -- Seymour Cray
From: Tobias Weingartner on 13 Jan 2006 22:09 Kevin Morris wrote: > > Any takers? Real/Complete programming information would be a very good start to a new hobby phase. But I think that all the FPGA vendors are too scared to give out this information. Come on, xilinx, altera, etc, etc. What could there possibly be so secret in the format for how to program your parts? :) -- [100~Plax]sb16i0A2172656B63616820636420726568746F6E61207473754A[dZ1!=b]salax
From: Bob Perlman on 13 Jan 2006 23:24
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 01:55:00 +0100, "Piotr Wyderski" <wyderski(a)mothers.against.spam-ii.uni.wroc.pl> wrote: >Kevin Morris wrote: > >> Radio Shack shifted their focus from 50-in-1 project kits > >I think that kits are a big misunderstanding, because you just need to >connect provided parts as described on a provided diagram. Even >a chimp could do it. But you want something for kids to build when they're young, before they're capable of designing something themselves. Lots of us cut our teeth on the 50-in-1 sets and Heathkits. If a kid between the ages of 8 and 15 asked me how to get started in electronics, I'd: 1) send them to Ramsey Electronics (http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/), which makes nice, relatively inexpensive kits of varying complexity. 2) ask them to get off my lawn. (Sort of obligatory at my age.) Bob Perlman Cambrian Design Works |