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From: Francesco on 13 Jan 2006 03:57 Kevin, I agree with you. (even if I think that the starter kit are still too expensive for people that want electronics as an hobby) I'm going to write some articles for an italian magazine (Fare Elettronica) about FPGA. This magazine is for people that like electronics as hobby. In my articles I'll talk about the Xilinxs FPGA and in 5 aticles I will introduce people to this technology. Francesco
From: John Adair on 13 Jan 2006 04:57 Kevin I'll start by saying I represent manufacturer making low cost boards but I can pass offline some of the feedback we get from users of our products particularly our Raggedstone1 and low cost modules that we sell also. Generally I would say that the fact that FPGA boards like ours now cost less that it takes to fill my car with fuel so that the start-up cost is nearly inconsequential to most hobby engineers. Coupled to that you get free fully function tools from most silicon vendors, and that achieving timing in designs at frequencies below say 50MHz is now easy, the marriage of factors is allowing hobbyists to use the technology. Looking back to say 10 years ago most of these factors didn't exist or were very limited and the barrier to hobby use was hugh. I can be contacted through our support email or telephone number, available on our website, if you want a bit more feedback. John Adair Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Raggedstone1. The Low Cost Spartan3 PCI Development Board. http://www.enterpoint.co.uk "Kevin Morris" <kevin(a)techfocusmedia.com> wrote in message news:1137096913.255199.239090(a)o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > I'm writing a feature article for FPGA Journal (www.fpgajournal.com) > about FPGAs and the re-birth of the electronics hobbyist. My theory is > that electronics as a hobby went through a "dark age" period, maybe > from the early/mid 1970s until recently becuase of the inaccessibility > and cost of designing with state-of-the-art technology. Radio Shack > shifted their focus from 50-in-1 project kits and hobbyist parts to > selling toys, cell-phones, and stereo equipment. > > Now, with the emergence of low-cost, high-capability FPGAs, development > boards, and design software, I see a new age of hobbyist activity > beginning (as often evidenced in this group). > > I'm looking for a few people that would be willing to express views on > this topic for the article. > > I know, Austin will probably post a strong technical argument that > Xilinx FPGAs are uniquely attractive to the hobbyist, somebody from > Altera will send me a Cubic Cyclonium prototyping paperweight (they're > very cool), and Actel and Lattice people will post just to remind us > that they have low-cost kits too, but I'm primarily interested in some > info from real, live, "working" hobbyists. > > Any takers? >
From: Alex Gibson on 13 Jan 2006 07:04 "Peter Alfke" <peter(a)xilinx.com> wrote in message news:1137114655.967499.118700(a)g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >I have struggled for decades to come up with enticing demo projects for > digital circuits, and I have made my rules: > It must be something that cannot be done with just a microprocessor. > That means it must be something fast. Audio, video, radio, robotics > come to mind. > Or, for FPGAs, it must be a platform that allows all sorts of > variations. Like the Swis Army knife of electronics. > Most likely it must be something that appeals to a limited number of > people. That way the toy industry has not yet made it available for $ > 9.99. (That was the death of some of my keyboard synthesizer projects > in the 'seventies.) > I think a secondary light-triggered (slave) flash unit would be very > useful for all those small digital cameras, but that does not need an > FPGA... :-( > Peter Alfke Why not an fpga synthesizer project ? Projects like that appeal to people. Things like the fpga4fun projects. Something like a music visualiser like the ones in winamp etc most micros aren't powerful enough for that. Or a software am radio. Use a fpga to replicate a couple of dollar tranny radio. Or some simple dsp projects like filters without using system generator or core generator. Pitch shifter, simple wah effect etc Update all the old analog type projects the hobby magazines have/had for fpga. One company could probably capture a lot of the hobbyist market if they produced a pdf magazine or quarterly with these sort of projects. As others have said provide the source code and maybe even an area to share projects. A bit like the Atmel applications journal when it started out. I'm still surprised non of the fpga companies have targeted the US board of education market like parallax has with the basic stamp. Use a s3e or s3 starter kit or dip module, with a "simple" soft-core that has a basic compiler for it that hides the internals. Simplify the schematics with like an icon based design environment like corechart http://www.elabtronics.com/products_cat_CoreChart.htm Could also easily target this at robotics as well. Get them using your products from 12 years onwards. Could stimulate designs like this by having a circuit cellar design contest and targeting it at the hobby market. Alex
From: Jan Panteltje on 13 Jan 2006 08:23 On a sunny day (12 Jan 2006 17:10:56 -0800) it happened "Peter Alfke" <peter(a)xilinx.com> wrote in <1137114655.967499.118700(a)g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>: >I have struggled for decades to come up with enticing demo projects for >digital circuits, and I have made my rules: >It must be something that cannot be done with just a microprocessor. >That means it must be something fast. Audio, video, radio, robotics >come to mind. >Or, for FPGAs, it must be a platform that allows all sorts of >variations. Like the Swis Army knife of electronics. >Most likely it must be something that appeals to a limited number of >people. That way the toy industry has not yet made it available for $ >9.99. (That was the death of some of my keyboard synthesizer projects >in the 'seventies.) >I think a secondary light-triggered (slave) flash unit would be very >useful for all those small digital cameras, but that does not need an >FPGA... :-( >Peter Alfke > OK I wanted to shut up on this, no I am no hobbyist, but I once was one. Still I tinker with stuff on the side. No running light etc.. is the interest of the 'current tinkerer'. Yes, high speed video. The current tinkerer (in me) needs an FPGA board with H264 decoder capable of doing H264 main profile, something like this: Stream #0.0, 50.00 fps(r): Video: h264, yuv420p, 1920x1088 The current tinkerer knows there is no real H264 acceleration graphics card with Linux driver, the current tinkerer also want to decode any encrypted.... The current tinkerer KNOWS systems change every few years, and wants to keep using the same hardware as long as possible, the current tinkerer wants VGA DVI and perhaps HDCP, and the current tinkerer wants Ethernet RJ45 100 MB/s to connect to the board.. and Linux soft like WebPack-8.1 to program it. The current tinkerer knows he needs a dual core Pentium 4 3.2 to pull it all of in software (better then that, even dual Opteron does not hack it actually), so here comes the price advantage of the FPGA solution. But only for so long, until the first H264 chips or accelerated graphics cards are on the market. So, throw in the H262 codec IP (or just the decoder) with the required soft and 'demo board', make sure it has that VGA (without earth noise problems), and RJ45 connector... and put it in the web shop. Hey I have it all working in C, have the source... developing a H264 decoder is some job.... maybe one of those C to HDL compilers... dunno. So the real hobbyist I was in the sixties build his own vidicon camera and TVs and what not... do not underestimate the real hobbyist ;-) And that kind of person will go for FPGA. The E Hobbyist was never 'dead', look at all the micro boards, then PICs, but indeed these demo FPGA boards are much more then that, they are universal building blocks. Just make sure it has the right IO.
From: John Adair on 13 Jan 2006 09:30
Alex We are half way there at the moment and a lot more is coming to fill in the gaps.So wait and see. John Adair Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Raggedstone1. The Low Cost Spartan-3 Development Board. http://www.enterpoint.co.uk "Alex Gibson" <news(a)alxx.org> wrote in message news:42pjalF1isg56U1(a)individual.net... > > "Peter Alfke" <peter(a)xilinx.com> wrote in message > news:1137114655.967499.118700(a)g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >>I have struggled for decades to come up with enticing demo projects for >> digital circuits, and I have made my rules: >> It must be something that cannot be done with just a microprocessor. >> That means it must be something fast. Audio, video, radio, robotics >> come to mind. >> Or, for FPGAs, it must be a platform that allows all sorts of >> variations. Like the Swis Army knife of electronics. >> Most likely it must be something that appeals to a limited number of >> people. That way the toy industry has not yet made it available for $ >> 9.99. (That was the death of some of my keyboard synthesizer projects >> in the 'seventies.) >> I think a secondary light-triggered (slave) flash unit would be very >> useful for all those small digital cameras, but that does not need an >> FPGA... :-( >> Peter Alfke > > Why not an fpga synthesizer project ? > > Projects like that appeal to people. > > Things like the fpga4fun projects. > > Something like a music visualiser like the ones in winamp etc > most micros aren't powerful enough for that. > > Or a software am radio. > Use a fpga to replicate a couple of dollar tranny radio. > > Or some simple dsp projects like filters without using system > generator or core generator. > Pitch shifter, simple wah effect etc > > Update all the old analog type projects the hobby magazines have/had for > fpga. > > One company could probably capture a lot of the hobbyist market if they > produced a pdf magazine or quarterly with these sort of projects. > As others have said provide the source code and maybe even an area to > share projects. > > A bit like the Atmel applications journal when it started out. > > I'm still surprised non of the fpga companies have targeted the > US board of education market like parallax has with the basic stamp. > > Use a s3e or s3 starter kit or dip module, with a "simple" soft-core that > has a basic compiler for it > that hides the internals. > Simplify the schematics with like an icon based design environment like > corechart > http://www.elabtronics.com/products_cat_CoreChart.htm > > Could also easily target this at robotics as well. > > Get them using your products from 12 years onwards. > > Could stimulate designs like this by having a circuit cellar > design contest and targeting it at the hobby market. > > Alex > |