Microsoft ending newsgroup support
in [MFC]
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From: Randall on 5 May 2010 18:58 In article <0968667e-66c8-42d2-904d-2851a815f645(a)h9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, Ajay Kalra says... > >On May 4, 9:22=A0pm, "MP" <mpNoS...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Microsoft said it plans to end support for more than 4,000 old-style >> newsgroups starting next month, pushing users instead to discussion forum= >s >> such as those found on the Microsoft Answers, TechNet, and MSDN sites. >> >> Although venerable, Microsoft said that so-called NNTP newsgroups are pas= >t >> their time in terms of being usable and secure. >> >> Link: >> >> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20004109-56.htm >> >> Mike P > >Truly sad. I dont really understand the reasons. It is sad and it sucks. The move solely benefits Microsoft by driving traffic through their sites rather than an outside community (Usenet)... they can control the content, and they can profit from the traffic. Many web-based discussion forums are cumbersome to use, require the acceptance of intrusive applications, and they collect a fair amount of personal data, so it's funny to hear Microsoft condemn Usenet for not being usable and secure lol. I prefer Usenet to the above mentioned alternatives, and will continue to use them. I picked up a paid account with a dedicated Usenet provider (newsguy.com) awhile back so I didn't have to worry about my ISP or free resources dropping newsgroups at some point. For what it's worth I get 12 months for $19, binary & text groups, NNTP & Web access, newsgroup search engine, free SSL, tech support. Wasn't crazy about paying for Usenet, but it works out to about a $1.60 month so it's not exactly breaking the bank lol. Randy
From: Hector Santos on 5 May 2010 19:38 I was able to finally login into the bridge (once I change my profile settings at the web site) and was able create a MUA (Thunderbird) NNTP account to the local host server. Slow as molasses Man, Microsoft should of came to us to private single source gateway software that support NNTP, WEB, NATIVE GUI and EVEN TELNET TEXT. If they are going to dump the NNTP servers, then they need to OPEN UP THE WEB SERVER/REST API. It would be totally unfair to only allow exclusivity solely to a 3rd party NNTP Bridge vendor. It really SUCKS that Microsoft is allowing this to happen. I'm going by what it says in the bridge login box: You are logging into (Microsoft Forums NntpBridge) which is not a Microsoft developed application. Finally, I don't see any merging of the existing NNTP forums with the MS Web Forums. Was that suppose to be the case? I don't see it. If that was not the case, then I don't see any reason why they can continue to sponsor NNTP servers with the current open NNTP newsgroups and continue to allow it to be USER/MVP supported. If Microsoft doesn't want to allow their employees to participate in the newsgroups anymore, then fine, don't allow them. Its not like they are have any high participation rate anyway. But that shouldn't be a reason to stop offering the long time NNTP based microsoft newsgroups. People, if we really want this then we need to find out if Microsoft is open to keeping the NNTP servers active but that might mean on proposing how they be managed. -- HLS Hector Santos wrote: > David Ching wrote: > >> "MP" <mpNoSpam(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:esIqxF$6KHA.2160(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> Microsoft said it plans to end support for more than 4,000 old-style >>> newsgroups starting next month, pushing users instead to discussion >>> forums such as those found on the Microsoft Answers, TechNet, and >>> MSDN sites. >>> >> >> There is an MFC forum: >> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vcmfcatl/threads >> >> Hope to see you there! And do check out the NNTP bridge: >> https://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums > > I just installed it and it can't handle my login it displays some > "exception box", although I was able (and required) to login at the > connect web site to even download it. > > Also, this is not a MICROSOFT DEVELOPED product. > > HOW DARE MICROSOFT CHANGE THERE SUPPORT SYSTEM AND OFFER A BROKEN 3RD > PARTY DEVELOPED PRODUCT IN ORDER TO KEEP WITH CURRENT CUSTOMER PREFERRED > MUA ACCESS? > > They need to TAKE control of this! >
From: Geoff on 5 May 2010 19:58 On Wed, 05 May 2010 19:38:37 -0400, Hector Santos <sant9442(a)nospam.gmail.com> wrote: [snip] > >Finally, I don't see any merging of the existing NNTP forums with the >MS Web Forums. Was that suppose to be the case? I don't see it. I don't see very many threads on the web side that clearly exist on the NNTP side. > >If that was not the case, then I don't see any reason why they can >continue to sponsor NNTP servers with the current open NNTP newsgroups >and continue to allow it to be USER/MVP supported. If Microsoft >doesn't want to allow their employees to participate in the newsgroups >anymore, then fine, don't allow them. Its not like they are have any >high participation rate anyway. But that shouldn't be a reason to >stop offering the long time NNTP based microsoft newsgroups. > >People, if we really want this then we need to find out if Microsoft >is open to keeping the NNTP servers active but that might mean on >proposing how they be managed. Why all this discussion? Bridged or not, the web forums will be proprietary to MS and controlled by them. I see this as mostly a move to exclude Google Groups from participation in the forums and a closure of the support system from a global resource to a private one that MS can censor or close at their discretion. The microsoft.public.* groups exist on NNTP servers around the globe whether or not the Microsoft NNTP servers exist or not. Unless Microsoft is prepared to make demands on those providers that the groups be deleted I see no reason to abandon use of the groups on other servers.
From: David Ching on 5 May 2010 20:27 "Hector Santos" <sant9442(a)nospam.gmail.com> wrote in message news:eDihewK7KHA.4508(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > I was able to finally login into the bridge (once I change my profile > settings at the web site) To be fair, there were pretty clear instructions before downloading the bridge that you needed to change your profile, so this hopefully will not be a hindrance to others. > and was able create a MUA (Thunderbird) NNTP account to the local host > server. Slow as molasses > Yup, forum traffic is typically low so after the first download, you typically won't wait long. Compared to how long and tedious navigating the forums are in a browser, I'd rather let this go for a few hours and not be bothered. > Man, Microsoft should of came to us to private single source gateway > software that support NNTP, WEB, NATIVE GUI and EVEN TELNET TEXT. > > If they are going to dump the NNTP servers, then they need to OPEN UP THE > WEB SERVER/REST API. > > It would be totally unfair to only allow exclusivity solely to a 3rd party > NNTP Bridge vendor. It really SUCKS that Microsoft is allowing this to > happen. > > I'm going by what it says in the bridge login box: > > You are logging into (Microsoft Forums NntpBridge) which is > not a Microsoft developed application. > I hadn't noticed that before and have asked MS for an explanation. Will get back to you. I certainly got the idea that the bridge was developed in-house at MS. > Finally, I don't see any merging of the existing NNTP forums with the MS > Web Forums. Was that suppose to be the case? I don't see it. > No, for example I listed the equivalent MFC forum for this newsgroup, no attempt will be made to merge the content or community of this one. > If that was not the case, then I don't see any reason why they can > continue to sponsor NNTP servers with the current open NNTP newsgroups and > continue to allow it to be USER/MVP supported. If Microsoft doesn't want > to allow their employees to participate in the newsgroups anymore, then > fine, don't allow them. Its not like they are have any high participation > rate anyway. But that shouldn't be a reason to stop offering the long > time NNTP based microsoft newsgroups. > I hadn't heard the primary mover was stopping MS employees from contributing. I had heard the current NNTP news servers had something to do with some discontinued Exchange product, and while those could have been replaced, there are other advantages to MS of moving to forums. First, people who ask questions (as opposed to answering a ton of them) find the web interface easier. (True enough, no need to deal with an NNTP client.) Second, MS has clearer ownership of property and might leverage it on Bing (and hide it from Google, or something). Third, NNTP doesn't support things like ratings, moderators, marking answers, points, moving of threads, etc. (The value of such things are debatable, but no denying NNTP doesn't support them.) > People, if we really want this then we need to find out if Microsoft is > open to keeping the NNTP servers active but that might mean on proposing > how they be managed. > I don't believe they are, this has been a battle (with MVP's championing NNTP) for several years, and it looks like we have lost. But at least our cries have netted the NNTP Bridge, which I think everyone will agree is small condolence but better than nothing. I will miss this newsgroup. The equivalent forum is lacking in community spirit (though that may improve as hopefully all of us migrate there). -- David
From: Joseph M. Newcomer on 5 May 2010 21:22
See below,.. On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:36:02 +0200, "Giovanni Dicanio" <giovanniDOTdicanio(a)REMOVEMEgmail.com> wrote: >"Joseph M. Newcomer" <newcomer(a)flounder.com> ha scritto nel messaggio >news:qt23u55s551a96vftb8pm0hcph63fmr1nk(a)4ax.com... > >> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy) >> >> Doesn't this seem to describe someone who would force us to use >> badly-designed forums? The >> lack of empathy is what produced the VS IDE. > >While there are some aspects I don't like in the new IDE, there are others >that are great. **** I am primarily referring to the massive modality; to do certain actions, to see certain things, you must FIRST get yourself in to the right mode, and the modality is implicit rather than explicit; you have to GUESS what mode you are in, and GUESS what mode you WISH to be in! We knew modal interfaces sucked 30 years ago, but the VS IDE added modality ***** >For example, I like the C++ squiggles feature which appeared in VS2010! **** And what makes this powerful is that it is NON-MODAL! **** > >BTW: I agree with you on the NNTP-bridge thing (I prefer pure NNTP >newsgroups like this one). >And one of the problems of the web forum interface is the lack of threading >view (they are "flat"); there are also problems in using the quoting tool in >the web-based editor. ***** Let us say that the designer had a very sick sense of humor. Most of the design shows a design done by someone who never ONCE used a threaded newsgroup reader! This is what happens when you turn design loose on people with insufficient experience; they don't understand what is and is not important! Where is the adult supervision? ***** > >And yes, I fail to understand the reason why there is no simple download >link to get the bridge binaries... Useless complexity in requiring login >before downloading :) ***** Anyone who could design a forum interface as bad as the one we see is not afraid to subject end users to gratuitous complexity! joe ***** > >Giovanni > Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP] email: newcomer(a)flounder.com Web: http://www.flounder.com MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm |