From: Bob Larter on
Ray Fischer wrote:
> Bob Larter <bobbylarter(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>>> Bob Larter wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't you think it's kind of hypocritical that on the one hand
>>>> right-wingers oppose abortion, calling it murder, and yet on the other
>>>> hand, they support the death penalty?
>>> Actually no. With abortion I can at least understand their opposition,
>>> even if I don't agree with it.
>>>
>>> At what number of weeks in the pregnancy would you say that abortion is
>>> no longer acceptable? Clearly few people would support it at 38 weeks.
>>> What about 27 weeks?
>> Given that my son was born at 26 weeks, & is now a perfectly healthy 8
>> year old, abortions as late as that do bother me a lot.
>
> Less than 1% of all abortions occur in the 3rd trimester and those few
> are almost always done for medical need.

In such cases, I don't have a problem with them.

>> That said, I
>> still believe that the woman's right to choose trumps the rights of the
>> foetus.
>>
>>> While their opposition to RU486 is pretty
>>> ridiculous, at least you can see where they are coming from in opposing
>>> abortion after the fetus is more than a few weeks old.
>> My personal dividing line is at the point where the foetus is viable
>> outside the womb. Currently, I think that's around 24 weeks.
>
> Only if you have a million dollars to spend on medical care. A more
> practical limit of viability would be around 33 weeks.

Not so. Here in Australia, where we have free, universal healthcare, my
son's birth & followup treatments didn't cost his mother or I a single cent.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob Larter on
SMS wrote:
> Bob Larter wrote:
>
>> Given that my son was born at 26 weeks, & is now a perfectly healthy 8
>> year old, abortions as late as that do bother me a lot. That said, I
>> still believe that the woman's right to choose trumps the rights of
>> the foetus.
>
> My daughter was 27 weeks, son was 32 weeks, and both are fine. The
> memory of the NICU ordeals will remain with me forever, as I'm sure it
> does with everyone that goes through it.

You're not kidding.

>>> While their opposition to RU486 is pretty ridiculous, at least you
>>> can see where they are coming from in opposing abortion after the
>>> fetus is more than a few weeks old.
>>
>> My personal dividing line is at the point where the foetus is viable
>> outside the womb. Currently, I think that's around 24 weeks.
>
> There are cases where there are extremely serious problems that are not
> known until the third trimester, cases where there is no reason to
> continue the pregnancy. This is where the right-wingers come up with
> their "only god can decide" schtick. Of course they don't apply the same
> criteria to other parts of others lives.

Of course not.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob Larter on
Bill Graham wrote:
>
> "Bob Larter" <bobbylarter(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4ab33be9$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>
>>> "wrbrown13" <wrbrown3(a)bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:xz99h2s243hc$.9skloajqavx8.dlg(a)40tude.net...
>>>> On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:20 -0700, Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Bob G" <mrbobjames(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:adbcdb79-6c7f-4021-8fc0-3adf608d7083(a)w10g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Republicans would rather get jerked around by the corporations
>>>>>> than by
>>>>>> the government. Wait until you get a horrible diseaase and your
>>>>>> health
>>>>>> insurance company drops you like a hot potato.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact is that this nation is now an oligarchy (and has been for
>>>>>> some time) and not a democracy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How does that go, from the corporations, by the corporations, and for
>>>>>> the corporations?
>>>>>
>>>>> That is what litigation is supposed to correct.....You still have
>>>>> the right
>>>>> to sue. But I never said that government couldn't regulate. Your
>>>>> health
>>>>> insurance policy should list the stuff it doesn't cover, in large
>>>>> ten point
>>>>> type.......I would vote for a law like that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now there's a thought. Sue a large corporation who has any number of
>>>> lawyers on their staff and can drag litigation out intil you don't
>>>> have a
>>>> penny to your name. Great in theory, but a joke in reality.
>>>
>>> They usually settle out of court. Why? Because juries are very
>>> sympathetic to the little guy, and have been known to award many
>>> millions of the big companies money to him.
>>
>> After years of litigation, during which the plaintiff may have died of
>> their illness.
>
> Better yet....Then his poor widow collects even more money....

Gee, I'm sure that's a huge comfort to her.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob Larter on
C J Campbell wrote:
> On 2009-09-18 00:46:40 -0700, Bob Larter <bobbylarter(a)gmail.com> said:
>
>> C J Campbell wrote:
>>> And no -- bureaucratizing health care is unlikely to get rid of waste
>>> and corruption. Far to the contrary. A national health care plan
>>> would vastly increase waste and corruption.
>>
>> Really? In every other country with 'socialised' health care, they
>> spend much less than the USA does.
>
> They also ration their health care.

Rubbish. My family & I have taken full advantage of our 'socialised'
health care system, & I've never even heard of it being rationed.
Believe me, it'd be front page news if it happened.

> If we included all the patients from
> countries with socialized health care who come to the US for care as
> part of the cost of their care, and subtracted it from what we spend, I
> think the numbers would be dramatically reversed.

How many Australians come to the USA for medical treatment?

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ray Fischer on
Bob Larter <bobbylarter(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>Ray Fischer wrote:
>> Bob Larter <bobbylarter(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>> SMS wrote:
>>>> Bob Larter wrote:

>>>>> Don't you think it's kind of hypocritical that on the one hand
>>>>> right-wingers oppose abortion, calling it murder, and yet on the other
>>>>> hand, they support the death penalty?
>>>> Actually no. With abortion I can at least understand their opposition,
>>>> even if I don't agree with it.
>>>>
>>>> At what number of weeks in the pregnancy would you say that abortion is
>>>> no longer acceptable? Clearly few people would support it at 38 weeks.
>>>> What about 27 weeks?
>>> Given that my son was born at 26 weeks, & is now a perfectly healthy 8
>>> year old, abortions as late as that do bother me a lot.
>>
>> Less than 1% of all abortions occur in the 3rd trimester and those few
>> are almost always done for medical need.
>
>In such cases, I don't have a problem with them.

How generous of you to grant a woman a choice with her pregnancy.

>>> That said, I
>>> still believe that the woman's right to choose trumps the rights of the
>>> foetus.
>>>
>>>> While their opposition to RU486 is pretty
>>>> ridiculous, at least you can see where they are coming from in opposing
>>>> abortion after the fetus is more than a few weeks old.
>>> My personal dividing line is at the point where the foetus is viable
>>> outside the womb. Currently, I think that's around 24 weeks.
>>
>> Only if you have a million dollars to spend on medical care. A more
>> practical limit of viability would be around 33 weeks.
>
>Not so. Here in Australia, where we have free, universal healthcare, my
>son's birth & followup treatments didn't cost his mother or I a single cent.

Somebody has to pay for it. 24-week preemies are VERY expensive and
lifelong medical problems are a near certainty.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer(a)sonic.net

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