Where is balance? -- Re: Academic priorities
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From: Del Cecchi on 2 May 2005 22:27 "rpl" <plinnane3REMOVE(a)NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message news:l4-dnSlZ2LV7MOvfRVn-3g(a)rogers.com... > Kevin G. Rhoads wrote: >>>BTW, the original justification for schools was to have a sufficiently >>>educated electorate to vote intelligently on the issues. In this they >>>have failed miserably. >> >> >> I think it is much worse than that. Public schools these days are not >> just failing to help solve the problem, they are active contributing to >> it. (One example: "zero tolerance") > > zero tolerance of what? bringing fully automatic weapons onto school > grounds ? > > rpl Zero Tolerance of anything "resembling" a weapon. Search on it. Children have been suspended for small (inches) plastic toy GI Joe guns, knives suitable for peeling a peach, drawing pictures of guns, having bb guns in their cars, having any kind of pocket knives. Perhaps you should learn something before speaking. del cecchi
From: Brian Inglis on 2 May 2005 23:36 ffOn Mon, 2 May 2005 21:27:24 -0500 in alt.folklore.computers, "Del Cecchi" <dcecchi.nospam(a)att.net> wrote: > >"rpl" <plinnane3REMOVE(a)NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message >news:l4-dnSlZ2LV7MOvfRVn-3g(a)rogers.com... >> Kevin G. Rhoads wrote: >>>>BTW, the original justification for schools was to have a sufficiently >>>>educated electorate to vote intelligently on the issues. In this they >>>>have failed miserably. >>> >>> >>> I think it is much worse than that. Public schools these days are not >>> just failing to help solve the problem, they are active contributing to >>> it. (One example: "zero tolerance") >> >> zero tolerance of what? bringing fully automatic weapons onto school >> grounds ? >Zero Tolerance of anything "resembling" a weapon. Search on it. Children >have been suspended for small (inches) plastic toy GI Joe guns, knives >suitable for peeling a peach, drawing pictures of guns, having bb guns in >their cars, having any kind of pocket knives. > >Perhaps you should learn something before speaking. ISTM the request for clarification, although sarcastic, is not unreasonable, given the wide variety of zero tolerance measures in place (e.g. harassment, offensive behaviour, property damage, inappropriate use of electronic information, intoxicants/drugs, peanuts/tree nuts, etc.), and the variations across countries, states/provinces, school districts, and individual schools. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis(a)CSi.com (Brian[dot]Inglis{at}SystematicSW[dot]ab[dot]ca) fake address use address above to reply
From: Steve Richfie1d on 2 May 2005 23:37 Del, et al, >>>I think it is much worse than that. Public schools these days are not >>>just failing to help solve the problem, they are active contributing to >>>it. (One example: "zero tolerance") >> >>zero tolerance of what? bringing fully automatic weapons onto school >>grounds ? > > Zero Tolerance of anything "resembling" a weapon. Search on it. Children > have been suspended for small (inches) plastic toy GI Joe guns, knives > suitable for peeling a peach, drawing pictures of guns, having bb guns in > their cars, having any kind of pocket knives. As part of teaching my kids to be able to act normal, they each received about 2 years each of public school, a few months at a time. During one such stint, my son was the smallest kid in his grade and became the target of bullies, so I sent him to school with stainless steel police-style handcuffs and a legal brief explaining that under the state constitution my son had an absolute legal right to carry them. Horrified, the principal asked my son to detach the cuffs from his belt and put them into his pocket, which he did, but then my son refused to discuss the private contents of his pocket! The school administration was out for two days trying to find a way to "deal" with the cuffs, only to finally determine that my son was completely within his rights. My son then went around with an entourage of kids looking for lawbreakers to citizen's arrest with his cuffs, but no kid was stupid enough to be caught by such vigilantes. This completely solved an ongoing violence problem for the entire school, over the unspoken objections of its administration. The problems of "zero tolerance" are simply a lack of sufficient firm legal challenge. It wouldn't last a day if I put my kids into such a school. Police and lawyers would attend their legal entry while they carried everything that should have been excepted under the "zero tolerance" rules. Steve Richfie1d
From: rpl on 2 May 2005 23:39 Del Cecchi wrote: > "rpl" <plinnane3REMOVE(a)NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message > news:l4-dnSlZ2LV7MOvfRVn-3g(a)rogers.com... > >>Kevin G. Rhoads wrote: >> >>>>BTW, the original justification for schools was to have a sufficiently >>>>educated electorate to vote intelligently on the issues. In this they >>>>have failed miserably. >>> >>> >>>I think it is much worse than that. Public schools these days are not >>>just failing to help solve the problem, they are active contributing to >>>it. (One example: "zero tolerance") >> >>zero tolerance of what? bringing fully automatic weapons onto school >>grounds ? >> >>rpl > > > Zero Tolerance of anything "resembling" a weapon. Search on it. Children > have been suspended for small (inches) plastic toy GI Joe guns, knives > suitable for peeling a peach, drawing pictures of guns, having bb guns in > their cars, having any kind of pocket knives. doesn't occur to the school board to have a "check stuff here" place/person ? > > Perhaps you should learn something before speaking. oh, blow it out an orifice, the phrase "zero tolerance" isn't only applicable to weaponry and I don't particularly feel like doing a NNTP lookup and a local news search just to find out whatever subject they're talking about, when I can ask.
From: Marco S Hyman on 3 May 2005 00:17
rpl <plinnane3REMOVE(a)NOSPAMyahoo.com> writes: > > just failing to help solve the problem, they are active contributing to > > it. (One example: "zero tolerance") > > zero tolerance of what? bringing fully automatic weapons onto school > grounds? It wasn't that long ago when it was not uncommon for children from about 10 years old and up to bring weapons to school, rifles shotguns that were stored in the school gun rack or cloak room during school hours. The weapons were used for hunting after school -- often an assigned chore, not something done purely for pleasure. As for zero tolerance... it teaches kids the wrong thing. Or do you think there is a valid lesson in getting kicked out of school because you carry a pocket knife? Now that purses and book bags have been banned at one school, http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?S=3245377 I suspect that burritos may be banned next http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7683168/ // marc |