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From: Lie Ryan on 4 Jun 2010 15:41 On 06/05/10 04:19, John Bokma wrote: > Steven D'Aprano <steve(a)REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes: > >> But the really sad thing is that you think that "bigger" automatically >> equals "better". > > I don't think that was the point. > > Anyway, not everbody can pick a provider, there are plenty of places > that have only one or maybe two. And if that's the choice and neither > carries Usenet you have to pay for Usenet like I do. Note that I > consider it well worth the 10 euros I pay for it. Isn't gmane available where you live? I've used gmane for newsgroups that my local server doesn't carry. The only problem is that there's a slight delay in opening new posts (0.5 seconds or so).
From: Lie Ryan on 4 Jun 2010 15:43 On 06/05/10 05:04, Emile van Sebille wrote: > On 6/4/2010 11:27 AM Terry Reedy said... >> On 6/4/2010 12:28 PM, Emile van Sebille wrote: >> >>> Is there now a non-email method of posting to this list? >> >> Google <==> comp.lang.python <==> python-list <==> >> gmane.comp.python.general >> >> where <==> is a bi-directional gateway. > > Yes -- I use gmane as well. But, IIRC, I needed to be on the mail list > in order for my responses to show up because MailMan is the primary back > end and I thought it's set to only accept posts from members. > > Hence, my question. Aren't we all members posting (ultimately) > exclusively through email regardless of preferred reading interfaces? No, I don't.
From: John Bokma on 4 Jun 2010 16:55 "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps(a)start.no> writes: > * John Bokma, on 04.06.2010 20:19: >> Steven D'Aprano<steve(a)REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes: >> >>> But the really sad thing is that you think that "bigger" automatically >>> equals "better". >> >> I don't think that was the point. >> >> Anyway, not everbody can pick a provider, there are plenty of places >> that have only one or maybe two. And if that's the choice and neither >> carries Usenet you have to pay for Usenet like I do. Note that I >> consider it well worth the 10 euros I pay for it. >> >> To me, it looks like the use of Usenet for text is on the >> decline. I've been away from Usenet for like a year or so and could see >> quite a difference. More and more ISPs in my experience are dropping >> Usenet from their services. Mind, I think that the number of users on >> Usenet (text only) still exceeds the number when I first used Usenet >> (back in the early 90's). But usage is on the decline as far as I can >> tell. On top of that I see people I know from Usenet now quite active on >> Stack Overflow and sister sites. >> >> Finally, I have to disagree with your disagreement (which is just a >> personal experience) based on my personal experience: it's harder to >> find an ISP that carries Usenet. And I have experience with, oh, just 3 >> countries where I have been living in for the past 10 years. > > True. > > While Usenet traffic is still exponentially increasing, most of that's > in binary groups, and it's spam. > > I think much of the decline of Usenet is correlated with an increase > of laws designed to limit free speech and support all kinds > surveillance. In my experience, as in people I know who've left Usenet, reasons for leaving Usenet are: 1) spam, number 1 culprit being Google. 2) newbies who don't care about posting guidelines 3) regulars in their ivory towers Other reasons: 4) MFA (Made for AdSense) sites that pretend to be a forum but just harvest all data from Usnet 5) trolls and kooks. > It started, as I see it, back in the early 90's with > Playboy attempting to sue anyone who used the Lena picture in photo > processing tests etc. (it's the standard image for that). They failed > in that particular endeavour, but did succeed in shutting down > thousands of sites worldwide displaying Playboy pictures. I know of the use of Lena. And to be honest, I agree with Playboy that they have the copyright. Some of the articles published on image processing end up behind a paywall or in a book. And I don't think the authors will be very happy if I convert their work in PDFs and offer it as free download on my site. Everybody wants a free ride until they have to create and maintain the rides in their own precious time with their own money. [...] > Until some replacement for Usenet appears, online discussion will in > general be effectively /local/, unknown to all but the parties > currently using a given web forum, and it will in general not be > archived. I like Stackoverflow and its sister sites a lot. -- John Bokma j3b Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/ http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development
From: John Bokma on 4 Jun 2010 16:57 Lie Ryan <lie.1296(a)gmail.com> writes: > On 06/04/10 11:56, John Bokma wrote: >> Phlip <phlip2005(a)gmail.com> writes: >> >>> On Jun 3, 3:20 pm, geremy condra <debat...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> You mean like how I never get answers, to my super-easy GED-level >>>>> questions, here??! >>>> >>>> I agree. This proves conclusively that a web forum is the right >>>> place for you. >>> >>> Ah, so you feel up to my "xsl for xmlrunner.py" question? >> >> Just jumping in the middle, but if you're looking for a web based forum >> where you can ask questions, check out Stack Overflow (and sister sites, >> depending on your question). I've noticed over the last couple of months >> that often things I google for, are answered on Stack Overflow. One >> thing that would've been nice to have on Usenet that I like is the >> ability to vote answers up or down. I think Usenet would've been a bit >> better with that option. > > Probably. A vote up/down feature tend to highlight popular problems, but > it also buries less popular problems that might have perfectly good > answers. Unless I misunderstand, the voting is for the replies, not for the questions. Or maybe the questions can be promoted to a queue, no idea. But that's not that different from questions posted to Usenet. The popular ones are asked often, the less popular ones once in a while, and might also not result in solutions. > I think Google Groups have 5-star-rating system? You might want > to check on that. Brrrr... no, I really prefer my Usenet via Gnus ;-). -- John Bokma j3b Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/ http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development
From: John Bokma on 4 Jun 2010 17:00
Lie Ryan <lie.1296(a)gmail.com> writes: > On 06/05/10 04:19, John Bokma wrote: >> Steven D'Aprano <steve(a)REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes: >> >>> But the really sad thing is that you think that "bigger" automatically >>> equals "better". >> >> I don't think that was the point. >> >> Anyway, not everbody can pick a provider, there are plenty of places >> that have only one or maybe two. And if that's the choice and neither >> carries Usenet you have to pay for Usenet like I do. Note that I >> consider it well worth the 10 euros I pay for it. > > Isn't gmane available where you live? I've used gmane for newsgroups > that my local server doesn't carry. The only problem is that there's a > slight delay in opening new posts (0.5 seconds or so). I am aware of Gmane [1] but in their own words: "Gmane is a mailing list archive.", so it's not Usenet. It's a Usenet server which provides access to mailing lists. (A very cool idea). But I am with Individual.net and IMO very great service for just 10 euro. [1] http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2005/01/14/gmane-mail-to-news.html -- John Bokma j3b Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/ http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development |