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From: Pierre Quentel on 4 Jun 2010 08:56 On 4 juin, 07:11, Steven D'Aprano <st...(a)REMOVE-THIS- cybersource.com.au> wrote: > On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 03:16:03 -0700, Pierre Quentel wrote: > > So the OP's initiative should be an incentive to think on the format of > > the interaction between all the range of Python users, from newbees to > > gurus. We are in the 2.0 era, with social networks all over the place > > using a pleasant interface, > > Really? I can't think of any 2.0 era social networks using pleasant > interfaces. All the ones I've seen or used start with mediocre interfaces > and get worse from there. > > > while c.l.p has a rather austere look and feel, with text only, > > Thank goodness for that! > > > no way to present code snippets in a different > > font / background than discussions, > > If somebody can't distinguish code from comments in a post by the > context, they aren't cut out to be a programmer and should probably stick > to posting "OMG LOL" on a social networking site. They certainly *can* distinguish. But it's so easy to make it more explicit with syntax highlighting, background color, border etc. that most sites about programing languages use it, including the Python home site itself, or the Python cookbook on Active State > > > and even an unintuitive way of entering links... > > Pasting or typing a URL is unintuitive? > > If somebody can't take the time and effort to post a URL in a form that > is not broken, well, that doesn't say much for their skills as a coder > does it? If you can't handle the fact that URLs can't be broken over > multiple lines in email and news posts, how do you expect to handle even > more vigorous requirements while programming? That's 2 different things. When you use a programming language you know you have to adopt the syntax defined by the program. When you write something in a forum, you expect that the editor will be smart enough to know that http://pythonforum.org is a URL > > > I'm not saying that pythonforum.org is the best solution but it > > certainly looks more attractive than c.l.p. to the new generation of > > Python users > > I get: > > While trying to retrieve the URL:http://pythonforum.org/ > The following error was encountered: > Connection to 173.83.46.254 Failed > The system returned: > (111) Connection refused > > Oops. Looks like they can't handle the millions of new users joining up. > > Despite my sarcasm, I actually do wish them the best. I'm not too worried > about fragmenting the community -- the community is already fragmented, > and that's a *good thing*. There are forums for newbies, for development > *of* Python (rather than development *in* Python), for numeric work in > Python, for Italian-speakers, for game development, etc. This is the way > it should be, and I don't fear a competing general Python forum or > forums. If they're better than comp.lang.python, they will attract more > users and become the place to be, and if they're not, they won't. > > -- > Steven
From: Jim Byrnes on 4 Jun 2010 09:56 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 22:05:19 -0700, Phlip wrote: > >> On Jun 3, 9:54 pm, Steven D'Aprano<st...(a)REMOVE-THIS- >> cybersource.com.au> wrote: >> >>> I don't know what rubbish ISPs you're dealing with >> >> You've heard of a little fly-by-night outfit called AT&T? > > Yes I have. Aren't they the people who were engaged in a long-running > criminal conspiracy to break the law and commit illegal warrantless > surveillance of American citizens? > > If you look at the reviews here: > > http://www.dslreports.com/gbu/ > > they are a distinct second-class ISP, with average B scores. Perhaps > that's better than "rubbish", but it's nothing to be proud about when you > are a company the size of AT&T. When you have that many resources, > anything less than straight A+ is a failure. > > And that's not even mentioning their lack of News access, their ham- > fisted and clueless blocking of 4chan (whether in legitimate self-defence > or not), or their stance on net neutrality. > > But the really sad thing is that you think that "bigger" automatically > equals "better". > > > I thought his point was they are big enough to have the resources to offer newsgroups but don't. If I want fast internet I must use Comcast and Comcast doesn't offer newsgroups either. Sadly is seems getting access to newsgroups is getting harder and harder. I much prefer newsgroups or email lists to web forums. Regards, Jim
From: Michael Torrie on 4 Jun 2010 11:46 On 06/03/2010 04:15 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > The best solution I've seen is what is used by the Mono project; > which provides both a "web forum" and a mail list interface. > > <http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list> > <http://go-mono.com/forums/> I just checked the archives of mono-list vs the forum and it's apparent that this scheme suffers from the same problem as every other forum solution. The threaded flow of discussion is lost, replaced by a flat, chronological "conversation." Even though the list archive suggests there is still a tree structure to posts, when you check into it you find that it is not a tree at all. Every message to the forum is taken to be a reply to the one before, even though it might not be. The archive web interface simply abandons nesting at 4 levels or so.
From: Emile van Sebille on 4 Jun 2010 12:28 On 6/3/2010 10:41 PM Steven D'Aprano said... > On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 06:15:20 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: >> Most people use this list via e-mail, > > How do you know? Do you have evidence for this, or are you just making it > up? > Is there now a non-email method of posting to this list? Emile
From: John Bokma on 4 Jun 2010 14:19
Steven D'Aprano <steve(a)REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes: > But the really sad thing is that you think that "bigger" automatically > equals "better". I don't think that was the point. Anyway, not everbody can pick a provider, there are plenty of places that have only one or maybe two. And if that's the choice and neither carries Usenet you have to pay for Usenet like I do. Note that I consider it well worth the 10 euros I pay for it. To me, it looks like the use of Usenet for text is on the decline. I've been away from Usenet for like a year or so and could see quite a difference. More and more ISPs in my experience are dropping Usenet from their services. Mind, I think that the number of users on Usenet (text only) still exceeds the number when I first used Usenet (back in the early 90's). But usage is on the decline as far as I can tell. On top of that I see people I know from Usenet now quite active on Stack Overflow and sister sites. Finally, I have to disagree with your disagreement (which is just a personal experience) based on my personal experience: it's harder to find an ISP that carries Usenet. And I have experience with, oh, just 3 countries where I have been living in for the past 10 years. -- John Bokma j3b Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/ http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development |