LS9/16 - not the desk for me
in [Live Sound]
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From: Arny Krueger on 17 Nov 2008 11:22 "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:492187D5.CC1A1239(a)hotmail.com > Arny Krueger wrote: > >> "Phildo" <Phil(a)phildo.net> wrote > >>> Did a briefcase gig tonight and got to use a Yammy LS9 >>> for the first time. >>> If I need to apply the effect to more than one channel >>> I can hopefully set it up in advance and use the aux >>> master send to adjust the level. On the bloody LS9 I >>> had to hit the mix button at which point I lost access >>> to the channel faders. I found myself constantly >>> jumping between pages, easy enough to do but very >>> restricting and certainly not an ideal way of working >>> for what I do. I got through the gig with very few >>> problems but there were certain FX cues I simply >>> couldn't do because of the amount of pages I would have >>> to jump through when all I needed was access to the >>> faders and a couple of aux sends at the same time. I >>> feel the whole way the desk has been configured pretty >>> badly thought out from a live sound point of view, at >>> least as far as an effects heavy show with a lot of the >>> cues being done on-the-fly. There probably is a way to >>> configure it to do roughly what I need but I didn't >>> have time to dig out the manual and work it out plus >>> I'm sure the house engineer would have loved me >>> changing all his settings. I feel that the desk has >>> been designed by engineers who really didn't have a >>> solid grasp of what a live engineer does and it seems >>> to be a real failing in the smaller Yamaha boards. >> Set up a custom layer with your most frequently accessed >> channels (input or output) on it. >> Chapter 8 in the LS9 manual. > Or use an analogue desk. No such problems ! Been there, done that, both ways. There are very few people who have even a few months of hands-on with a digital console who want to go back to analog. For example, our worship services have 20 technical scenes, which we are covering with 8 different lighting scenes and 9 different audio scenes. How many full-function scenes (not just mutes and a limited set of VCAs) can you store on that low-priced analog desk? ;-) Implicit in the OP is the fact that the OP has apparently never used this particular desk before in his life, and his major experience with digital desks has been with an installed system, running the same shows over and over again, using a large format digital desk. With large format digital desks, you generally aren't doing that much with layers and menus, which is one reason why they are physically huge. Layers and menus can be leveraged, but you need to be experienced with the concept and comfortable with their execution to do so. Note that George apparently has the prerequisite experience with relevant kinds of digital consoles, and came up with a good approach.
From: Phildo on 17 Nov 2008 17:16 "hank alrich" <walkinay(a)nv.net> wrote in message news:1iqjh0g.32fubk1e0f5sxN%walkinay(a)nv.net... > George's Pro Sound Company <bmoas(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> Learn the user defined keys function > > Good idea! You miss the point. I was a briefcaser walking up to the desk for the first time. I was expecting a GL3300 according to what we had been told and the gig was running very late so had very little time to learn the board. My whole point is that the board is not intuitive or well thought out enough to be able to use without some proper time on it first. Unlike the MC7L or the A&H boards you can't just walk up to it and mix so it is really not a suitable board for any gig where a briefcase engineer will have to use it without any training. Phildo
From: Eeyore on 17 Nov 2008 17:22 Arny Krueger wrote: > "Eeyore" wrote > > Arny Krueger wrote: > >> "Phildo" <Phil(a)phildo.net> wrote > > > >>> Did a briefcase gig tonight and got to use a Yammy LS9 > >>> for the first time. > > >>> If I need to apply the effect to more than one channel > >>> I can hopefully set it up in advance and use the aux > >>> master send to adjust the level. On the bloody LS9 I > >>> had to hit the mix button at which point I lost access > >>> to the channel faders. I found myself constantly > >>> jumping between pages, easy enough to do but very > >>> restricting and certainly not an ideal way of working > >>> for what I do. I got through the gig with very few > >>> problems but there were certain FX cues I simply > >>> couldn't do because of the amount of pages I would have > >>> to jump through when all I needed was access to the > >>> faders and a couple of aux sends at the same time. I > >>> feel the whole way the desk has been configured pretty > >>> badly thought out from a live sound point of view, at > >>> least as far as an effects heavy show with a lot of the > >>> cues being done on-the-fly. There probably is a way to > >>> configure it to do roughly what I need but I didn't > >>> have time to dig out the manual and work it out plus > >>> I'm sure the house engineer would have loved me > >>> changing all his settings. I feel that the desk has > >>> been designed by engineers who really didn't have a > >>> solid grasp of what a live engineer does and it seems > >>> to be a real failing in the smaller Yamaha boards. > > >> Set up a custom layer with your most frequently accessed > >> channels (input or output) on it. > > >> Chapter 8 in the LS9 manual. > > > Or use an analogue desk. No such problems ! > > Been there, done that, both ways. There are very few people who have even a > few months of hands-on with a digital console who want to go back to analog. > > For example, our worship services have 20 technical scenes, which we are > covering with 8 different lighting scenes and 9 different audio scenes. How > many full-function scenes (not just mutes and a limited set of VCAs) can you > store on that low-priced analog desk? ;-) > > Implicit in the OP is the fact that the OP has apparently never used this > particular desk before in his life, and his major experience with digital > desks has been with an installed system, running the same shows over and > over again, using a large format digital desk. With large format digital > desks, you generally aren't doing that much with layers and menus, which is > one reason why they are physically huge. > > Layers and menus can be leveraged, but you need to be experienced with the > concept and comfortable with their execution to do so. > > Note that George apparently has the prerequisite experience with relevant > kinds of digital consoles, and came up with a good approach. I know what you mean but it does illustrate what I've always said which is that a traditional analogue desk will always be more friendly to a visiting engineer rather than the house guy who's learnt all the tricks. I did have trouble once finding the aux masters on an LX7 once though. They struck me as being in an illogical place. Love the GL2400 though. Shame we have no use for the matrix. Graham
From: George's Pro Sound Company on 17 Nov 2008 17:25 "Phildo" <Phil(a)phildo.net> wrote in message news:83mUk.54820$%D2.4926(a)newsfe18.ams2... > > "hank alrich" <walkinay(a)nv.net> wrote in message > news:1iqjh0g.32fubk1e0f5sxN%walkinay(a)nv.net... >> George's Pro Sound Company <bmoas(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>> Learn the user defined keys function >> >> Good idea! > > You miss the point. I was a briefcaser walking up to the desk for the > first time. I was expecting a GL3300 according to what we had been told > and the gig was running very late so had very little time to learn the > board. My whole point is that the board is not intuitive or well thought > out enough to be able to use without some proper time on it first. Unlike > the MC7L or the A&H boards you can't just walk up to it and mix so it is > really not a suitable board for any gig where a briefcase engineer will > have to use it without any training. > > Phildo perhaps not with NO help from the owner or system tech but I have had dozens upon dozens of breifcase engineers on my ls9/32 and without exception they all got along great on them, two of them bought ones for themselves but every desk isn't for everyone that's why there are lots of desks out there but the ls9 is going to be "everywhere" and you ought come to peace with it or carry your own desk I would feel crippled on a 3300 at this point so little versitilty and so much PITA work to carry, hook up deal with even a small amount of outboard anymore plus the sound of the 3300 is just not up to ls9 standards especially when you have lots of inputs running hard but as I have said, lots of desks out there, carry one you like George > >
From: George's Pro Sound Company on 17 Nov 2008 17:39
I actually know how your feeling decades ago I remember when I rented stacks and racks for a show and they were dropped off with a omnidrive ,,not a traditional xover that was a scary day I swore NEVER again would one of those damn things cross my path but eventually I learned how to use one and became rather indiffrent to them I also loath the little Midas desks but if thats what is offered I know enough work arounds to make it functional I offer your problem was lack of experiance rather than any fault with the desk it is very user friendly and dead simple to learn on the fly I don't know of any digital desk that is easier for the untrained to get up to speed on George |