Significant Pure Assembler Application In MASM ?
in [ASM]
|
Prev: aeBIOS Test Request
Next: CMOVcc vs. Jcc
From: Betov on 6 Oct 2007 12:38 //\\\\o//\\\\annabee <w(a)w.w.w> �crivait news:op.tzr9kxv5in6out(a)darth-fpsr: > At a moment in time that asmers are able to create apps > comparable to HLL apps, in the same amount of time, we (the GPL > movement) will be able to PUSH theese apps in matters of weeks. This > will cripple any Crime&co HLL devs, that spends months at what we > typically spends a few weeks at doing. And we will earn our rightfull > place in history. As you know, i am inside an "expectation loop", actually. Now that ReactOS is dead, RosAsm has no more any reason for existing, other than for assuming its users, but for sure, i will no more implement anything important new, without any PE alternative to Windows. Also, Linux is another world, where so much work should be done that it frightens me, whereas i am still unsure if Ubuntu will ever win a significative market range, or not. So, wasting time at COM thingies or at painting giraffes in purple... Betov. < http://rosasm.org >
From: santosh on 6 Oct 2007 13:27 Betov wrote: > //\\\\o//\\\\annabee <w(a)w.w.w> �crivait > news:op.tzr9kxv5in6out(a)darth-fpsr: > >> At a moment in time that asmers are able to create apps >> comparable to HLL apps, in the same amount of time, High level languages were developed primarily because of the time it took to implement assembler programmes. >> we (the GPL >> movement) will be able to PUSH theese apps in matters of weeks. The Free Software movement is about software freedom, not any particular implementation language. >> This will cripple any Crime&co HLL devs, that spends months at what >> we typically spends a few weeks at doing. And we will earn our >> rightfull place in history. The FOSS phenomenon has _already_ earned a place in the history of s/w development. But don't delude yourself that commercial s/w will simply disappear when assembler becomes as productive as HLLs. I believe that both will not happen. > As you know, i am inside an "expectation loop", actually. Now that > ReactOS is dead, Why do say this? There was a release just last month and another scheduled for December. <snip> > Also, Linux is another world, where so much work should be done that > it frightens me, [ ... ] Well the existence of assemblers like gas, NASM, FASM, as86 etc. suggests that it's easy enough under Linux. <snip>
From: //o//annabee on 6 Oct 2007 13:35 On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 18:38:53 +0200, Betov <betov(a)free.fr> wrote: > > As you know, i am inside an "expectation loop", actually. Now that > ReactOS is dead, RosAsm has no more any reason for existing, other > than for assuming its users, but for sure, i will no more implement > anything important new, without any PE alternative to Windows. > > Also, Linux is another world, where so much work should be done that > it frightens me, whereas i am still unsure if Ubuntu will ever win a > significative market range, or not. > > So, wasting time at COM thingies or at painting giraffes in purple... :)) Yes. But I dont see this exactly the same way. I see another 10-20 years of windows. Eventually I belive it will "die". (Become just a choise). But in the meantime, "all" of the users will be doing windows. Only some of theese will be programmers. And to provide a GPL assembler as useful as RosAam will be _very_ useful to those. Espesially at the long term _conscience_ side. Furthermore, painting giraffes is purple are useful when you view it the other way: "Why cant RosAsm do purple giraffes"? Like you place much importance on the 12 assembly tutorials, I think it is important to show "purple giraffes" anywhere where someone is asking this question. We are not trying to convince people allready in the know. Another thing is that to teach users what GPL means, this imply to be present in an OS where users are. Soforth this is windows. So showing what GPL can mean, in a OS that users actually make use of seems to me more useful, at this time, than showing what GPL could be in an OS that nearly no user even know about. I think that GPL is much more important then any OS. I am not the first to see this. There are several very good GPL projects running on windows. We have for instance : The VLC mediaplayer, that is an _AWSOME_ mediaplayer that even without an IDE completly mocks the Windows M$ Mediaplayer. However. The mediaplayer of windows, is still gaining users. Despite this!! Why??? So if they took this _awsome_ mediaplayer (VLC), and made it look like a purple giraffe, this would evidently silence any possible argument why Windows Mediaplayer should somehow be "better", which it under no cirumstance is. The VLC player is allmost as good as it gets. It is GPL and it can play img, rar files directly and a mountain of other formats. It is _as_ awsome as Rosasm in the programmming area. It only lack in the "Purple Elephant" area. :D Its is an indisputable fact that most people, even smart people, react positivly to what they think looks nice. This is evidently the major reason why Windows is successful. Looking good is extremly important. It works directly at the subconscience. Few are those that avoid this lure, cause it is _wired_ into us. A few years ago I heard that scientist have actually proven that the relation between good looks, and good personality is factual. Cruel, because I look like a living corpse at the moment, but evidently something to consider when releasing software, which only purpose is to have users. What other purpose is there? To not have users????? So, Basically, i think that RosAsm has a valid a real future with windows, and that you should start porting it to 64bit. > > Betov. > > < http://rosasm.org > >
From: santosh on 6 Oct 2007 13:56 //\\\\o//\\\\annabee wrote: > On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 18:38:53 +0200, Betov <betov(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> As you know, i am inside an "expectation loop", actually. Now that >> ReactOS is dead, RosAsm has no more any reason for existing, other >> than for assuming its users, but for sure, i will no more implement >> anything important new, without any PE alternative to Windows. >> >> Also, Linux is another world, where so much work should be done that >> it frightens me, whereas i am still unsure if Ubuntu will ever win a >> significative market range, or not. >> >> So, wasting time at COM thingies or at painting giraffes in purple... > > :)) > > Yes. But I dont see this exactly the same way. I see another 10-20 > years of windows. > Eventually I belive it will "die". (Become just a choise). It _is_ a choice, even now. > But in the meantime, "all" of the users will be doing windows. You are wrong here. <snip something about "purple giraffes"> > Another thing is that to teach users what GPL means, this imply to be > present in an OS where users are. Soforth this is windows. No, not so forth. Linux definitely has hundreds of thousands of users, if not millions. Also don't forget other OSS OSen like FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD etc. <snip> > I think that GPL is much more important then any OS. ITYM Free Software, not GPL. > I am not the first to see this. Obviously. > There are several very good GPL projects running on > windows. We have for instance : The VLC mediaplayer, that is an > _AWSOME_ mediaplayer that even without an IDE IDE for a media player? > completly mocks the > Windows M$ Mediaplayer. However. The mediaplayer of windows, is still > gaining users. Despite this!! Why??? Because Windows Media Player used to be bundled along with Windows and because Microsoft does a huge amount of "marketing." Keep in mind though that the dominance of Media Player is not as great, or as important, as the more fundamental dominance of Windows itself. <snip> > Its is an indisputable fact that most people, even smart people, react > positivly to what they think looks nice. It's not an indisputable fact, particularly not in programming. > This is evidently the major > reason why Windows is successful. Looking good is extremly important. My KDE desktop is much prettier looking than any Windows desktop I've ever used or seen. > It works directly at the subconscience. Only for shallow folks. > Few are those that avoid this lure, cause it is _wired_ into us. A few > years ago I heard that scientist have actually proven that the > relation between good looks, and good personality is factual. Disputable. I know of many many counter examples. > evidently something to consider when releasing software, which only > purpose is to have users. What other purpose is there? To not have > users????? There is not direct correlation between software use and it's "beauty." > So, Basically, i think that RosAsm has a valid a real future with > windows, and that you should start porting it to 64bit. You do realise that RosAsm is _not_ a visually pleasing piece of work, don't you? I believe that Betov should do more work on the RosAsm _language_ rather than it's current implementation. If the language becomes attractive enough someone will implement it into the current implementation or produce a new one. The RosAsm assembly language should be given primary importance if Betov and the RosAsm community want the language to go anywhere other than the graveyard.
From: Betov on 6 Oct 2007 14:01
santosh <santosh.k83(a)gmail.com> �crivait news:fe8gh4$1nd$1(a)aioe.org: > High level languages were developed primarily because of the time it > took to implement assembler programmes. No. There were invented because nobody ever wanted to invest the required work for an Assembly development Environment. The *Environment* is all of the story. In no case the Language. > The FOSS phenomenon has _already_ earned a place in the history of s/w > development. Personally, i am not happy with 1.5% for the Linuxes market place. > But don't delude yourself that commercial s/w will simply > disappear when assembler becomes as productive as HLLs. I believe that > both will not happen. Of course. >> As you know, i am inside an "expectation loop", actually. Now that >> ReactOS is dead, > > Why do say this? There was a release just last month and another > scheduled for December. There is no more possibility for ReactOS to succeed. See: < http://betov.free.fr/ReactOS.html > >> Also, Linux is another world, where so much work should be done that >> it frightens me, [ ... ] > > Well the existence of assemblers like gas, NASM, FASM, as86 etc. > suggests that it's easy enough under Linux. ? Where are you at ? Linux Assembly is in the same state as Win32 Assembly was in 1996. Do you have an idea of the quantity of works and of research to be done, for having something like RosAsm ported to Linux, even with the help of GTK? Betov. < http://rosasm.org > |