Significant Pure Assembler Application In MASM ?
in [ASM]
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From: //o//annabee on 5 Oct 2007 11:09 On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:55:12 +0200, Betov <betov(a)free.fr> wrote: > //\\\\o//\\\\annabee <w(a)w.w.w> �crivait > news:op.tzp1b5cfin6out(a)darth-fpsr: > >> But he seems to me like a coder. > > Sure. > >> He allready explained he understood >> Rosasm was far more then just an assembler. This mean it has a brain. >> And the code he posted is definitly of some quality. So he / she is a >> coder. And evidently an experience one. All experience coders will >> value a good tool. > > Yes. The question is why and what for. Following his recommendation > to read his help file, i just saw that he is at this since 2001. I > also saw that he took the pain of featuring his Dialog with many... > how do they say?... "bells and wistles"? Something like this, which > might explain the reason why a Registry infos collector could become > that big. > > The "why" is about why doing such a thing with and for such a ridiculous > toy as MASM? Why not any of the actual Assemblers? At this point of > view, if he "has a brain" (Right-Wing bastards sometimes do), working > 6 years for supporting the Crime&Co against Assembly is quite impressive. > The "What for" is about programming. Here, i have no competency for > estimating all of this, at a practical point of view, but it seems > evident to me that it has no much relationship with what R�mi did > for the GUIDs, which is quite effective for the programming, even > if nobody got really interested with this stuff. > Finaly, a difficult question is how long would it have been with an > Assembler? Not really possible to answer to this question, without > knowing what it is about (i was never interested with COM, other than > for the calling implementation...), but for sure it would not have > been 6 years for a COM collector List View, even added with as many > "bells and wistles". Well. He seemed to me an honest person. This is a much much harder project then beeing politically correct. > Betov. > > < http://rosasm.org >
From: rhyde on 5 Oct 2007 12:56 On Oct 5, 1:45 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...(a)nowhere.cmm> wrote: > > Unfortunately, Herbert's great stuff is lost on the world because he doesn't > embrace x86 syntax. Exactly what is "x86 syntax"? > So is Randall's because of his failure to embrace the C > syntax fully. And if I did, you'd simply be complaining that it's lost on the world because I don't embrace x86 syntax. > MASM's syntax, of course, is being rapidly expired by NASM's. Why don't you provide proof of this? > So anything you've contributed to the world will be lost and worthless too. Yes, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Someday we *will* switch to non-x86 processors and *everything* the x86 fans in this newsgroup do will be lost and worthless. hLater, Randy Hyde
From: Betov on 5 Oct 2007 13:59 japheth <mail(a)japheth.de> �crivait news:1191595957.592329.303700 @w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > I guess now, after you have disclosed that it is a simple registry > info collector with some "bells and wistles", which could have been > written with a real assembler in a month or so with about 50 kB size, > it is absolutely clear that it is NOT an application. Am I right? No. I would count it as a significative Application. Which does not answer to any question: * Why on earth have you choosen MASM instead of an actual Assembler? * Which IDE do you use for compiling this? * If this is not a registry infos collector, what is it? [Saying that you have a Drag&Drop of some specific files, is not what i am asking for]. * If some infos are taken from somewhere else than from the Registry, where are they taken from? * Reading your .hlp does not explain, in any way, the reason why your application would be that big and would have taken that much years to write. OK, taking 10 more times than needed because of MASM is natural, but 6 years?!... Also, some other questions, like: * What of the vTables? I did not saw any, and without them, how do you point them out, when wanting to program something, at a practical point of view? * Are you sure all of the COM and GUIDs are recovered? (the ones we have in the RosAsm package do not seem to be there. This is something that i do not masterise at all, but are not GUIDs and COM objects bound together?). Betov. < http://rosasm.org >
From: Betov on 5 Oct 2007 14:04 "rhyde(a)cs.ucr.edu" <rhyde(a)cs.ucr.edu> �crivait news:1191603388.936214.65240 @57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com: > Someday we *will* switch to non-x86 > processors and *everything* the x86 fans in this newsgroup do will be > lost and worthless. Do not despair clown: There will be new pioneers, who will do all ot the hard job, so that will be able to steal their works the way you have always done, and will go on selling yourself at the beginners' expense. :) Betov. < http://rosasm.org >
From: bontanu on 5 Oct 2007 17:10
On 4 Oct, 14:48, Betov <be...(a)free.fr> wrote: > japheth <m...(a)japheth.de> écrivait news:1191497512.841960.127630 > @d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > > > Sorry, this restriction wasn't mentioned in the OP's request for > > showing "significant" MASM applications. It also sounds a bit > > artificial IMO. > > You like it or not, "significant" means something having > a source size around 300, 500, 1000 Kb. That is, a real > *Application*, and evidently not a small Demo. One of > the multiple problems coming with MASM is that is becomes > more and more difficult to write and to maintain anything, > above some significant size. The reason why none of you > has anything to show. Facts. > > The biggest win32 app ever written with MASM was created > with TASM by Bodgan (H. E.), and he achieved its size > (quite "significative"), by implementing its Sprites in > a special code driven manner, which is rather comparable > to consider Bitmaps as *code*. > > Betov. > > <http://rosasm.org> Hi all, I have to answer this error in Betov's post. HE does not contain data or "sprites in a special code driven manner" As you can check from the HE demo all sprites are loaded as data (not code) from the hard disk. There are 2 or 3 small routines that draw them on the screen and that is all about sprites. The rest of the code is computer AI, game logic, gui, network, multiplayer, directx interfaces...etc all the needed stuff in a big game. As a consequence the claim is wrong. The code in HE is simply that: Win32 ASM code. And yes probably Hostile Encouter is the bigest ASM application ever done and it was written quite easy in TASM. The initial versions have been done in MASM but we switched to TASM early on because of my personal preferences and because we owned a few commercial licenses for TASM. Then SOLAR_OS comes pretty close in seccond position after HE. In my books SOL_ASM comes in 3rd position but to be honest it is probably still smaller than RosASM at this time. I take no sides into those battles, I have posted only to correct a misconception about HE. Best regards Bogdan Ontanu |