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From: Chris H on 11 Apr 2010 09:58 In message <lp91s5d1stojun6e28eun1481qfeea0is9(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> writes > >I'm sure Chris's figures come from the same source as all his other >figures - pulled from thin air - but, in fairness, he said that the >pedophilia rate among Catholic *clergy* is three times higher than the >general population rate. He's comparing priests to the general >population, not all Catholics to the general population. Correct. Actually with the recent revelations the latest estimations are getting of for double that. But that does include those involved in the cover up and protecting of pedophiles. >Getting accurate figures is tricky. Yes because the Church YOU support lies about it. All the way up to the pope >Chris's figure are also incorrect when he refers to "pedophilia". >Pedophilia is sexual abuse of prepubescent children, and many victims >of abuse by clergy are above the age of puberty but still not adults. >If we use Chris's term, we'd have to eliminate abuse of adolescents >from the statistics. As expected.... equivocation and manipulation of the facts... The Nazis did similar at Nuremberg. (The Catholic Church helped many of them too though that was mainly because the Russians were godless communists) ) >I don't expect Chris to understand such distinctions, I do understand that yet again you are equivocating and deflecting the argument >and the point of >gravitas is that sexual abuse and molestation has occurred and is >still occurring. It's reprehensibly wrong no matter what terms are >used. Yet you still support the Church that protects Peadophiles. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: Chris H on 11 Apr 2010 09:53 In message <f94e25bc-45ac-4d4f-8ec9-04596954804c(a)x12g2000yqx.googlegroup s.com>, Vance <vance.lear(a)gmail.com> writes >On Apr 9, 12:44�am, Chris H <ch...(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >> In message <7essr55vqo2ln3rabv8859jn541a9s8...(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper >> <tony_cooper...(a)earthlink.net> writes >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:31:26 +0100, Chris H <ch...(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >> >> >>In message <1Amvn.32611$pj7.29...(a)en-nntp-15.dc1.easynews.com>, GMAN >> >><Winniethep...(a)100acrewoods.org> writes >> >>>In article <1giqr594p2c4c7pvnumq0430sj0oc6n...(a)4ax.com>, tony cooper >> >>><tony_cooper...(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>>>On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 21:27:02 -0500, James Nagler >> >>>><jnag...(a)spamproofed.net> wrote: >> >> >>>>>On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:13:31 -0400, tony cooper >> >>>>><tony_cooper...(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>BTW, the word "Catholic", in this context is capitalized as a proper >> >>>>>>noun. �To write "catholic" is a sign of ignorance of the language and >> >>>>>>not an indication of approval or disapproval of the religion. >> >> >>>>>When catholics and all other christians learn to respect and honor the >> >>>>>belief systems, Gods, and Goddesses of all other cultures by also >> >>>>>capitalizing their Gods and Goddesses, perhaps they'll >> >>>>>eventually earn the >> >>>>>respect to have their title capitalized again some day. They have zero >> >>>>>respect for anyone else on the planet so they deserve zero respect in >> >>>>>return. >> >> >>>>>Perhaps we should cut off one of your wife's breast with a rusty knife >> >>>>>while she is still alive and play a game of stick-ball with it >> >>>>>so we can be >> >>>>>more "christian". >> >> >>>>Your contribution is appreciated. �Whenever I think some of the other >> >>>>posters here are hopelessly ignorant, along comes someone like you to >> >>>>make them look like Mensa candidates by comparison. >> >> >>>And some here think you are an arrogant prick! >> >> >>I would not say that. He just will not admit to himself that it is his >> >>own Church that is one of the main single sources of pedophiles globally >> >>and the institution, including his own church covers it up. >> >> >>I don't think you could find any other organisation that has such a high >> >>number or percentage of pedophiles and child abusers. >> >> >Masons? >> >> :-) >> >> The best form of defence is attack and obfuscation? Tony the lapsed >> Cathiolic whose wife and family support a Church and Parish who covered >> up and supported a pedophile now attack another group by way of >> deflection. >> >> No the crime rate (of all types of crime) in the Masons is way lower >> than the general population. >> >> The pedophila rate in the Catholic �Church Clergy was about 3 times >> higher than in the general population before the recent revelations. It >> is now looking to be much higher. And that is without taking into >> account those who directly helped to cover it up. > >Can you backup your unattributed figure for the prevelance of >pedophilia being 3 times higher in the Catholic Church than the >general population with a credible cite? I'm not interested in what >you believe, what 'everyone knows', etc. > Yes. However as I already did that several years ago and since them more cases have come to light I am not going to hunt out all the references for those who are too warped to accept reality. All you will do is equivocate every line. >In preparation for something over 600 hours of studying >(professionally) convicted, no doubt about it pedophiles, I did what >any researcher would do and familiarized myself with the literature. >I am not aware of any study in the literature in either the UK or the >US at that time that indicated the level of pedophilia was any higher >in the Catholic Church than in the general population. I would agree with you. If you were looking for Convicted pedophiles and that is the whole point. The Catholic Church has been shielding hundreds of priests (and nuns) from Abuse charges. All the way up to the pope. BTW are you now or were you at any time a Catholic? -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: tony cooper on 11 Apr 2010 11:17 On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:46:46 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >The difference is that the incidents among teachers is far lower than >the Catholic clergy and when caught the teachers get prosecuted. The >Priests get protected and moved to new places The Catholic church cannot arrest anyone. The Catholic church cannot charge anyone with a crime. The Catholic church cannot try anyone in a court of law. The Catholic church cannot refuse to allow a priest to be arrested or tried. Any failures to arrest or prosecute are failures of the civil law enforcement and prosecutorial agencies. We know that priests have committed sexual abuse. Victims have stated that they were abused. Victims have testified that they have been abused in civil court cases. Why are there so few arrests or trials? The Catholic church has shielded offenders, but how can this stop the process of arrest and trial? Organized crime shields their members and withholds information and records, but the police manage to penetrate their shielding. Any other type of criminal is not protected because they move to a new place. Do you think a teacher is protected because he or she moves to a new place? The law enforcement agencies and courts of your country and mine have the power to penetrate the shielding, but they don't. Why? The church and members of the church's clergy have committed horrific criminal acts and are guilty of shameful cover-ups. It is equally shameful, however, that the civil authorities are doing very little to punish the offenders. Everyone - including myself - want the offending priests in jail. But, the only people who can effect this - the civil law enforcement agencies - are not doing much about it. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: Savageduck on 11 Apr 2010 11:29 On 2010-04-11 08:17:14 -0700, tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> said: > On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:46:46 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> > wrote: > >> The difference is that the incidents among teachers is far lower than >> the Catholic clergy and when caught the teachers get prosecuted. The >> Priests get protected and moved to new places > > The Catholic church cannot arrest anyone. The Catholic church cannot > charge anyone with a crime. The Catholic church cannot try anyone in > a court of law. The Catholic church cannot refuse to allow a priest > to be arrested or tried. > > Any failures to arrest or prosecute are failures of the civil law > enforcement and prosecutorial agencies. We know that priests have > committed sexual abuse. Victims have stated that they were abused. > Victims have testified that they have been abused in civil court > cases. > > Why are there so few arrests or trials? The Catholic church has > shielded offenders, but how can this stop the process of arrest and > trial? Organized crime shields their members and withholds > information and records, but the police manage to penetrate their > shielding. Any other type of criminal is not protected because they > move to a new place. Do you think a teacher is protected because he > or she moves to a new place? > > The law enforcement agencies and courts of your country and mine have > the power to penetrate the shielding, but they don't. Why? > > The church and members of the church's clergy have committed horrific > criminal acts and are guilty of shameful cover-ups. It is equally > shameful, however, that the civil authorities are doing very little to > punish the offenders. > > Everyone - including myself - want the offending priests in jail. > But, the only people who can effect this - the civil law enforcement > agencies - are not doing much about it. > > > > > Have you guys seen any of Pat Condell's opinion in this regard? http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell#p/u -- Regards, Savageduck
From: LOL! on 11 Apr 2010 11:47
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:17:14 -0400, tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:46:46 +0100, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >wrote: > >>The difference is that the incidents among teachers is far lower than >>the Catholic clergy and when caught the teachers get prosecuted. The >>Priests get protected and moved to new places > >The Catholic church cannot arrest anyone. The Catholic church cannot >charge anyone with a crime. The Catholic church cannot try anyone in >a court of law. The Catholic church cannot refuse to allow a priest >to be arrested or tried. > >Any failures to arrest or prosecute are failures of the civil law >enforcement and prosecutorial agencies. We know that priests have >committed sexual abuse. Victims have stated that they were abused. >Victims have testified that they have been abused in civil court >cases. > >Why are there so few arrests or trials? The Catholic church has >shielded offenders, but how can this stop the process of arrest and >trial? Organized crime shields their members and withholds >information and records, but the police manage to penetrate their >shielding. Any other type of criminal is not protected because they >move to a new place. Do you think a teacher is protected because he >or she moves to a new place? > >The law enforcement agencies and courts of your country and mine have >the power to penetrate the shielding, but they don't. Why? > >The church and members of the church's clergy have committed horrific >criminal acts and are guilty of shameful cover-ups. It is equally >shameful, however, that the civil authorities are doing very little to >punish the offenders. > >Everyone - including myself - want the offending priests in jail. >But, the only people who can effect this - the civil law enforcement >agencies - are not doing much about it. But he's a good christian officer! He's a good christian public defender! He's a good christian investigator! He's a good christian judge! He even makes people swear to tell the truth on his own bible! He's a good christian <insert public-office career of your choice>! Now, I wonder why those people don't go after the very churches and religions that they support. Why is that .... LOL! |